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Author Topic: Plans for 2018 ?  (Read 4628 times)

Offline little john

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Plans for 2018 ?
« on: December 02, 2017, 07:54:07 am »
Many parts of the UK have just been hit by snow - a rare event here so early in December - and so not unreasonably, thoughts have been turned towards the warmer days of Spring ...

Just wondering what plans you guys have for the 2018 season ?

For myself, I've never had much problem with getting queens mated in full-sized 5-frame nuc boxes, but have never had much success with the tiny mini-sized boxes - so I've made a couple of half-width deep boxes with 'half-length' frames running across the shorter dimension.  It's not a new idea by any means - as a lot of people are already running this format.  Just thought I'd join them ...

Each half-width box will accommodate 11 of these smaller (5"x 7" deep) frames, and with a divider inserted 2x 5-frame mating nucs are thus created - again, an already popular format - and I've made a number of dummies to play with reducing the frame count from 5 down to 3, in order to reduce the number of bees required even further.  I'll just have to see how this strategy works out - I've run into problems with absconding when using divided full-sized nuc boxes in the past, so will need to keep a watch out for this.

So - what plans do other people have ?

LJ
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Offline Acebird

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Re: Plans for 2018 ?
« Reply #1 on: December 02, 2017, 08:10:34 am »
How do you accommodate the growth of the colony when the equipment is non standard?
I did not make it back to my favorite number of colonies, three.  So hopefully I will have one surviving hive that I can split to get back to three.
Brian Cardinal
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Van, Arkansas, USA

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Re: Plans for 2018 ?
« Reply #2 on: December 02, 2017, 10:09:23 am »
Hey Buddies, I?m gonna graft and generate queens.  Not for sale though, as I run a small operation and I will not ship.  I will give queens away to locals.

For open breeding, I use a partioned 10 frame that holds 4 compartments , 2 deep frames each partition each with 3/4 inch opening.  Required lots of resources for this but remember I am a small time Breeder.  I will generate some II queens, hoping for mite resistances, this is so time consuming and expensive: incubators, stereo microscopes, insemination equipment,  carbon dioxide kits....

As you may or may not know, only takes one drone to complete a queen mating.  Each drone bearing 12 million sperm in one microliter.  More than enough for a queens lifetime of laying.  However, the queens spermethca (holding chamber) will hold 10 microliter thus 10 drones is the usual for insemination.

This II queen breeding is lots of trouble and expensive as already stated, I would not recommend.  However, what?s a retired genetic engineer to do?  Well, try to better the bees.  I hate varroa and will do anything to generate or improve a queens resistant traits.
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Offline little john

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Re: Plans for 2018 ?
« Reply #3 on: December 02, 2017, 01:42:21 pm »
How do you accommodate the growth of the colony when the equipment is non standard?

These frames and boxes are not for raising nucleus colonies, but only for mating queens with.  I agree wholeheartedly with your point that if raising a nucleus colony which naturally expands - then sure - keep them on standard-sized frames from day one. Any other approach is nuts (imo).
 
With these mating nucs, the principle is similar to the use of mini-nucs - i.e. they're setup with the smallest viable colony; queen-cell emerges, queen is mated, lays a frame or two of eggs, then removed.  Next queen-cell is added, and so on.  If the small colony should enlarge a little during this process, then the number of frames can be increased from 3 to 5.  Some people pull the divider - Mike Palmer being a good example - to enlarge the colony to a box-full of frames, and even stacking those boxes and over-wintering them, thusly:




... but I don't intend doing this.  The key to the setup I'm planning is in maintaining a common footprint, or a simple divisor of it:



The British National Hives I mainly work with are square, as in 'A' above.  The 5-frame Nucleus Boxes are Half-Width, as in 'B', with two fitting exactly over a standard Brood Box.  Discrete standalone Mating-Nucs could then be quarter-sized - but I've decided to maintain a 'B' footprint, divide this in half, as in 'C', and run the smaller frames across custom-built boxes, rather than along their length.  Thus far, my system is more-or-less identical to Mike Palmer's.

By retaining the divider and common footprint division it creates, combs for the smaller mating frames can be initially drawn-out over a colony housed in a standard half-width nucleus box, and colonies then formed by installing nurse bees through a queen excluder.  Then, when the season is over, and these small colonies made queenless again for one last time - the remaining bees can be easily combined with any queenright nucleus colony housed in a standard half-width nucleus box.  Thus, these custom-sized frames (and dividers) never get to leave their custom-built boxes.  Or at least, that's the plan ! (Famous last words ...)


Van - wishing you great success with your AI/II - I once looked at the cost involved for equipment and the amount of time it typically takes to become proficient ... it's definitely not a technique for the faint-hearted !

LJ
A Heretics Guide to Beekeeping - http://heretics-guide.atwebpages.com

Offline beepro

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Re: Plans for 2018 ?
« Reply #4 on: December 03, 2017, 02:07:22 am »
For 2018 I have many things to do including:

1. Making splits with tf bought queens.
2. Plant more nectar/pollen producing plants for our summer dearth.
3. Making grafts from the best resistant tf queens.
4. Perfecting my mite removal tf system starting early after June when the flow stop.
5. And II the Cordovan queens to populate my local DCAs.

It is going to be a very busy season for me to rebuild my
apiary with 60 drawn comb already in storage.  Not sure if I can accomplish it
all but for sure it will keep me busy all season long, including winter. 

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Re: Plans for 2018 ?
« Reply #5 on: December 03, 2017, 07:48:30 am »
Van,
Good lock with your II. One of the ways that my bees are able to survive without treatment is that my bees are mutts. If you look at the n my hives, you will see several different types of bees, some very yellow to very black bees. The queens that they produce are the same way.  This seems to indicate that my queens are mating with a wide variety of drones to get this variety in the hive. I believe this creates a hive that has enough bees with a wide range of genetics to handle all of the problems they now have to deal with.
The more drones you use from a wide variety of bees that you use the better the chance you have of getting the bees you are looking for.
Can you use frozen, fully developed drones for II. I find that drones seem to die very quickly, in an hour or 2 outside of the hive. Maybe a battery box with bees will keep them alive.
If we can find a way to ship them, in the spring I could collect a large number of them from all of my hives and send them to you.
Jim
Democracy is 2 wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote.
Ben Franklin

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Re: Plans for 2018 ?
« Reply #6 on: December 03, 2017, 07:53:29 am »
Van,
Are you coming the Beefest 2018?
If so, you can collect the sperm yourself and freeze it to take home.
I would love to have you do a demonstration on doing II during Beefest.
Jim
Democracy is 2 wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote.
Ben Franklin

Offline Acebird

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Re: Plans for 2018 ?
« Reply #7 on: December 03, 2017, 08:53:45 am »
these custom-sized frames (and dividers) never get to leave their custom-built boxes.

The breeding of queens appears to me as a big gamble.  It seems to me you are loading a small size box with a wall to wall colony putting together all the conditions for a swarm such that timing is so critical as predicting the birth of pups.  If a flow is going on couldn't that colony fill up that box and go by,by in a few days?
Brian Cardinal
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Van, Arkansas, USA

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Re: Plans for 2018 ?
« Reply #8 on: December 03, 2017, 10:39:57 am »
Jim, I would luv to come to the 2018 Beefest, however my disabilities would make that trip impossible, so I will not be able to attend.

Mutts, bees and dogs:  agreed, some of the best dogs I have ever seen were mutts.  My concerns with my bees are the hygenic bees.  I want to carry on, that is breed for this trait.  Every year I have hygenic hives with mite count of 4 mites or less per hive.  Every year, I seem to lose this trait when I requeen with natural bred queens.  So I want to try to breed for this trait, I have the time.

Yes, the drones are hyperactive, messy, fickle little critters.  They must be constantly groomed and cared for by the nurse bees.  Selection and capture of the drones is the hardest part.  Drones must be at least 10 days old after hatch or they will not work for breeding purposes.  Fuzzies as they are called, are drones less than 10 days old after hatch, completely covered with fuzz, these will not work for sire purpose.

Usually a person suggest a laying worker hive as a source of drones, this will not work for my purposes as I know not the traits of the laying worker.

However, most of my queens will be natural mated.  The crown jewel will be an II queen.
Blessings

Offline yes2matt

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Re: Plans for 2018 ?
« Reply #9 on: December 03, 2017, 04:07:06 pm »
Our state - NC - had a grant available to buy  up to 12 new hives. I applied and expect to receive it. If I understand the limitations correctly,  it pays for equipment, not bees. So if that money materializes, my plan is to purchase that equipment and try to populate it.

I've had a rough summer, so I'll be starting with three colonies at best.

If that money doesn't come through, I'll have a similar project; I have enough equipment to home 12 colonies myself, and I harvested enough honey this past spring to feed the family for the next year.

I'm raising bees this year.

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Offline Jim134

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Re: Plans for 2018 ?
« Reply #10 on: December 03, 2017, 05:43:05 pm »
2. Plant more nectar/pollen producing plants for our summer dearth.


     The best plant for this my opinion is the BeeBee tree .Especially for the North East part of the United States ..


        BEE HAPPY Jim 134  :smile:
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Offline jtcmedic

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Re: Plans for 2018 ?
« Reply #11 on: December 03, 2017, 09:46:31 pm »
I?m hoping to keep my 8 going and have 4 production hives and do some splits with the other 4. Try to grow my apiary. Also doing water meter call so looking forward to 2018

Van, Arkansas, USA

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Re: Plans for 2018 ?
« Reply #12 on: December 03, 2017, 10:04:14 pm »
JTC, hello ,,,,,,,,water meter hives??  According to Jim, (Sawdust)African Bees prefer ground nest.  Be aware.  You are in a state known for those killer bees.  Just be careful.
Blessings

Offline Jim134

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Re: Plans for 2018 ?
« Reply #13 on: December 04, 2017, 05:38:43 am »
JTC, hello ,,,,,,,,water meter hives??  According to Jim, (Sawdust)African Bees prefer ground nest.  Be aware.  You are in a state known for those killer bees.  Just be careful.
Blessings

FABIS Manual ? Fast Africanized Bee Identification ..I know this test is done in Southern Florida by the state ...The state bee Inspector  show up in a portable lab in a Van ..They will have a decision in about 15 minutes ..If you have African bees or not ...This is a free service From the apiary inspector ln Florida ..From what I understand this is supposed to be perform all cut out and swarms ..In Southern Florida .


              BEE HAPPY Jim 134  :smile:
« Last Edit: December 04, 2017, 01:19:28 pm by Jim 134 »
"Tell me and I'll forget,show me and I may  remember,involve me and I'll understand"
        Chinese Proverb

"The farmer is the only man in our economy who buys everything at retail, sells everything at wholesale, and pays the freight both ways."
 John F. Kennedy
Franklin County Beekeepers Association MA. http://www.franklinmabeekeepers.org/

Online BeeMaster2

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Re: Plans for 2018 ?
« Reply #14 on: December 04, 2017, 07:19:51 am »
My inspector showed up last year with a large thunder cloud building up near by. I asked him if he really wanted to inspect them and warned him that the bees would not appreciate it. He insisted. He had his jacket and I put mine on even though I do not normally need it. The first hive he opened came out and stung his hands real bad. He stopped and went and got his gloves to finish the inspectiona. The rest of the hives were ok. He decided that that first hive must be Africanized and went back in it and took a cupful of bees to be inspected. I told him they were not and it was just the weather but he insisted. They came back as European.
The Florida BMP says that if you catch a swarm that you have to requeen it. This is mainly for south Florida.
Jim
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Offline Hops Brewster

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Re: Plans for 2018 ?
« Reply #15 on: December 04, 2017, 11:05:09 am »
The results of my first foray in queen making this past season were less than stellar.  I tried the Chinese grafting tool and couldn't quite get the hang of getting the tiny larvae out without damaging them.  I had a very poor success rate.  Hopefully I've learned something, though, and I shall be trying again.

One of the 'successful' queen cells gave me an odd situation.  I think she was not mated well, but the nuc accepted her as a good queen.  There were never any new eggs from her!  I gave that nuc a brood frame from another colony, but both times all brood from those frames grew to maturity and I never saw any fresh eggs or larvae, even looking with a magnifier.  There was no sign of a laying worker, no eggs at all.  The funny thing is, the entire time, this nuc behaved as if it had a laying queen.  They clustered around her, built comb, and stored honey and pollen just like a normal colony.

Weeks passed into early autumn and I decided to combine that nuc with my smallest hive using newsprint and a Q excluder.   Even after 3 1/2 weeks, the newspaper was not chewed. through.  They continued to behave as a separate colony.  I removed the QE and paper 3 weeks ago, and there are still 2 clusters of bees in this hive, though the top cluster seems to be slowly declining.

Well, next season I will try making queens again, both by using grafting tools and by trying walk-away splits. 


Winter is coming.

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Re: Plans for 2018 ?
« Reply #16 on: December 04, 2017, 11:29:37 am »
I hope to start over this year.  I have no way to control the Yellowjacket environment because one of my neighbors has made a perfect nesting place for them with his construction equipment and materials.  I'll probably hot glue every crack and hole I can find in my hives and hope for the best, but......There were few swarms to collect this year, and I'm not paying the price for boxed bees. 
Someone really ought to tell them that the world of Ayn Rand?s novel was not meant to be aspirational.

Offline Bush_84

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Re: Plans for 2018 ?
« Reply #17 on: December 04, 2017, 02:27:54 pm »
Further expansion and growth on all fronts is ultimately my goal.

This winter I?m going to need to get in y workshop and build. I need more Nucs (maxed out my nuc equipment last year). I also need more roofs and floors for my production hives. I should have enough brood boxes and supers. Also need to put together more swarm traps.

As far as bees go spring will likely involve nuc management. Last summer was my first foray into queen rearing and Nucs. So I?ll have Nucs that will be moved into my eight frame equipment, some that I will keep in Nucs as support units, and some that I will split and make queens from. That leads me to my next hopes. Further splits as well as improving my queen rearing skills.
Keeping bees since 2011.

Also please excuse the typos.  My iPad autocorrect can be brutal.

Offline jtcmedic

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Re: Plans for 2018 ?
« Reply #18 on: December 04, 2017, 03:27:56 pm »
Was planning with the cuts to re queen. I have a great inspector that is a phone call away, Jim and I have chatted in my last cutout, will see how they do will be put in a isolation yard will see what happens will look into that lab thing though.

Offline little john

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Re: Plans for 2018 ?
« Reply #19 on: December 05, 2017, 04:37:01 pm »
The results of my first foray in queen making this past season were less than stellar.  I tried the Chinese grafting tool and couldn't quite get the hang of getting the tiny larvae out without damaging them.  I had a very poor success rate.

That's been my story too - and eyesight deteriorating with age doesn't exactly help.  A tip spotted during travels around the Internet is to use the smallest watercolour artist's paintbrush you can find - size 00 or smaller - and use that instead of the harder tool.  Also - to cut away the walls of the target cells, so that the angle of 'lift' is no longer quite so vertical.  If you have plastic foundation, then simply scratch the walls away with a blade, leaving the exposed larvae behind in the dimples.  Never tried any of these - but plan to try a few 'grafts' yet again this coming year ...
LJ
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