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Author Topic: Doing the Right Thing  (Read 1745 times)

Offline Beeboy01

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Doing the Right Thing
« on: June 30, 2019, 11:17:13 am »
It's been a busy few months and happily my hives are doing well. Even pulled six gallons four weeks ago which made me smile. Now I've a problem, a good friend who is a bee owner wants me to make a nuc for him. Last year he got one off of me which was a real nice bunch of bees, gentle, good honey producers and a beautiful yellow color. Anyways apparently he never treated for mites and the hive crashed about two weeks ago in the classic mite kill. When I asked him about checking and treating for for mites he said he has never seen them, didn't think they had any so he didn't look or treat. I can't get him to agree to check and treat for mites even though he has lost every hive he has owned over the last four years.
   I've already agreed to sell him a nuc for cheap which is an extra in my yard but I don't know how to do the right thing and get him to revamp his beekeeping style and deal with the mite problem.
  Just needed to vent and hope somebody can give me advice.   

Offline iddee

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Re: Doing the Right Thing
« Reply #1 on: June 30, 2019, 11:23:44 am »
My advice......

Go up in price and enjoy the profit.

As the saying goes, "A fool and his money soon parts."
"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be"

*Shel Silverstein*

Offline ed/La.

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Re: Doing the Right Thing
« Reply #2 on: June 30, 2019, 12:04:28 pm »
When you treat your hives treat his. When he sees the results he will learn.

Offline saltybluegrass

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Re: Doing the Right Thing
« Reply #3 on: June 30, 2019, 12:07:01 pm »
This comes down to you making it convienient and look too easy-
I spent no less than 2-300 hours on line researching before I tried raising them. yes I cannot find a queen for the life of me but I put swifters in and do inspections and try.
I cannot get over the savoy faire approach to such a life sustaining vocation.
Sell him the 6 gallons and be done with it!!
And I think to myself, what a wonderful world
Then all else falls in line
It?s up to me

Offline Beeboy01

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Re: Doing the Right Thing
« Reply #4 on: June 30, 2019, 12:40:04 pm »
ed/la,
    I tried treating his hive last year but am using a oxalic acid vaporizer for my bees and would of needed to treat his hive at least five times, he basically wanted me to do all the work while he watched.  I even gave him two Apivar strips for use in his last hive but he never used them. A price increase will be in the works for next year.
   So far this year I've talked to  three other new bees who didn't treat for mites and have been wiped out. It's just frustrating cause I've been there and had to revamp my entire operation to make it work. 

Offline CoolBees

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Re: Doing the Right Thing
« Reply #5 on: June 30, 2019, 01:02:43 pm »
Beeboy01 - there's 2 ways to look at this:

1) It bothers you that he won't take care of the girls you put so much effort and care into. The girls need/deserve knowledgeable care, and it's almost offensive when someone doesn't seem bothered to care. Thus your need to vent ... or ...

2) (how I imagine most comm beeks feel) - sad and happy at the same time, selling nucs that they know will most likely fail because of lack of care - this person represents annual cash flow to you. Yes you care about the bees, and rightly so. But they don't, and won't. They will buy nucs from you every year (that will continue to fail do to no fault of yours), giving you additional cash resources to maintain healthy hives in abundance.

Harsh I suppose, but it's all in how you look at the situation.
You cannot permanently help men by doing for them, what they could and should do for themselves - Abraham Lincoln

Offline TheHoneyPump

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Re: Doing the Right Thing
« Reply #6 on: June 30, 2019, 02:58:03 pm »
Sort of what Mr Cool said above.
For some people, bees are livestock. For others they are like pets. For still others, the beehive is just a box with a tap on it that you open and honey flows out. 

Think of this way.  Would you sell that dairy cow to someone who you knowingly is not capable (or willing) to look after it?  What about that horse? What about those puppies or kittens? Will they take to the vet, keep the shots up to date, provide nutrition, shelter?  What about the colourful fish tank? Bees are insects, that does not change anything.
imho:  The responsibility for animal husbandry and welfare exists on both sides of the exchange.

I sell bees and queens to people who demonstrate to me they are consistently putting the effort in to look after them. I include in my sale unlimited advice and mentoring. Ask anything any time. If I have to go out and do it for them, there is a charge.  Be it cash or barter exchange.  If they are asking questions, taking advice, and the bees fail .... ok fine, it happens - lets try again. If they ask nothing or take no action on advice and the bees fail .... that is neglect. No more from me.

Before sale I ask questions up front.  Things like why they want bees, what their goals are, what experience they have.  Pass that test and I sell them the bees.  Fail the test and I do not sell to them. 

If they are located nearby I may offer them an opportunity to enjoy bees in a different way. They can be a bee-haver, but I will be the beekeeper. My bees, my equipment, I look after them. They prepare the site, cover any exception cost, and host them. They are welcome to come stick their head in the hive whenever I go to check on the hive(s) and learn. They buy the products from the hive (honey, wax). This way they get to have bees, they get the honey/wax from their property (they pay for it), and I know the bees are looked after (by me).  After awhile, I may ultimately sell them the hive when they think they have a handle on what is involved and I am satisfied they will make their best effort at it.

Most of my nearby friends have bees. Great people. For reasons stated, and per the OP concern, only a couple of them actually own the bees and can be called beekeepers. The rest are beehavers, I refused to sell to them.

Perhaps consider some sort of variation of the above for your friend. Advice is to back out of the sale and offer an alternate arrangement.  It is the responsible thing to do for the bees sake.

To be frank, the essence of what I have put above is the ONLY reason I spend time here on BM.  Its all about the bees, all about helping people however I can to look after the bees as best they can.
« Last Edit: June 30, 2019, 04:32:20 pm by TheHoneyPump »
When the lid goes back on, the bees will spend the next 3 days undoing most of what the beekeeper just did to them.

Offline CoolBees

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Re: Doing the Right Thing
« Reply #7 on: June 30, 2019, 04:09:45 pm »
Very well stated HP. I thank you deeply for your many contributions here (and elsewhere I'm sure). I happen to agree with your approach. Several people locally here have asked for bees - I've always given them 2 options: let me place bees at their property that I am solely responsible for (they are welcome to join me during inspections, etc), or go do their own research and buy their own bees and equipment from someone else ... for all the reasons you state.

I didn't mean come come across wrong in my earlier post - i just wanted to mention that many nucs are sold here in California with the general expectation that they will fail due to owner negligence, and more will be sold to the same owner next year - the money from the sales goes pays for proper increases in bees by professionals. ... and while neither you nor  will participate in this approach, it might have its place in the bee world ... or not ... :grin:
You cannot permanently help men by doing for them, what they could and should do for themselves - Abraham Lincoln

Offline Ben Framed

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Re: Doing the Right Thing
« Reply #8 on: June 30, 2019, 04:19:02 pm »
Some people do not need horses. Some people do not need dogs. Some people do not need bees, as some need none of the above. But worse than any of these, some people do not need children. Sad
2 Chronicles 7:14
14 If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.

Offline Beeboy01

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Re: Doing the Right Thing
« Reply #9 on: June 30, 2019, 04:32:19 pm »
Thanks for your insight HP, you have pretty much nailed how I feel about bee keeping also. Been a bee keeper for over 25 years and have learned to respect and enjoy them more than most people realize. Since I had already agreed to supply my friend a nuc this year I feel obligated to follow through. Right now I think my only real option is to try to reeducate him on just how destructive mites are and convince him that he needs to treat at least spring and fall. I won't have the free time to hit his hive five or six times with my oxalic acid wand which is the treatment of choice in my yard because he lives a good 3/4 of an hour away so the final decision as to treat or not will fall on him. The old saying about leading a horse to water comes to mind. I'm not into lending out any equipment either, been there and got burned more than once for being a nice guy.
   My next question would be what type of mite treatment should I recommend to him. I've used Apivar with good success before moving over to oxalic acid but know there are a lot of other options out there. Major hive manipulation is out of the question for him so performing brood breaks or something similar would be too far advanced. Gotta keep it simple. 

Offline TheHoneyPump

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Doing the Right Thing
« Reply #10 on: June 30, 2019, 04:37:37 pm »
I would recommend to keep the mite thing really simple for him then. > ApiVar <. Phone him when to put it in the spring. Phone him when to take it out. Phone him when to put in the fall. Phone him when to take it out.
Basically:  phone or text him from time to time; as you are working over your hives tell him what you are doing why and when, tell him to do the same at the same time.  If he does great.  If he doesn't, end the bee-friend relationship and just go to the pub together. Have him pay for all the drinks. It will cost him less than bees, you both will have a better time together, and no bees will be killed in the process. 
« Last Edit: June 30, 2019, 11:57:18 pm by TheHoneyPump »
When the lid goes back on, the bees will spend the next 3 days undoing most of what the beekeeper just did to them.

Offline Beeboy01

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Re: Doing the Right Thing
« Reply #11 on: June 30, 2019, 05:47:04 pm »
HP, That sounds like a good plan to get him back on the road to being a good beekeeper and I'll give it a try. Thanks

Offline Troutdog

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Re: Doing the Right Thing
« Reply #12 on: July 01, 2019, 10:01:26 am »
Just go over and do a mite wash the stick his head in hives and apply 100 ml formic at 95% on a super hot day. Lol.
Probably why I dont have friends.

Buy him some magnifies so he can see.

Tell him to give you a dollar a mite for everyone on sticky board post treatment.

Have him arrested for impersonating a beekeeper.

Quarantine his hives for foulkeeper disease.

Just treat his hive next time he goes away for a day.

Just some really bad suggestions I know.
It's a problem having mite bombs in the neighborhood and I'm sure the treatment free people will tell me I'm an idiot.
Unless you have super mite maulers to start you have no chance to be treatment free at a small scale.

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Offline Troutdog

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Re: Doing the Right Thing
« Reply #13 on: July 01, 2019, 10:04:03 am »
I wont sell him anything but my worst q that I was replacing anyway.

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Offline Bushpilot

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Re: Doing the Right Thing
« Reply #14 on: July 01, 2019, 10:21:09 am »
Increase the price, and include apivar with the sale. Give him a call when he is to put it in the hive. If he doesn't, no more bees.

Offline Beeboy01

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Re: Doing the Right Thing
« Reply #15 on: July 01, 2019, 11:03:04 am »
Got a good chuckle from your reply Troutdog, a little humor goes a long way LOL. I'll try to re educate him and include some apivar with the hive when he picks it up.
  Did a quick inspection of my hives and they all are cranking along bringing in honey and doing their bee things to keep the hives going. Spotted a couple mites on the trays after 24 hours so will need to treat in about a month or so after this honey flow. Just want to knock the mite population down some till the fall when I'll do a full course of oxalic acid treatments.  Going to try to get my friend over to see the mite fall after the knockdown treatments, maybe that will help change his mind.
  It's the first time in about five years I have had more than two or three hives, now finally with six the bee yard is impressive and a little sobering.   

Offline Ben Framed

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Re: Doing the Right Thing
« Reply #16 on: July 01, 2019, 11:06:33 am »
Just go over and do a mite wash the stick his head in hives and apply 100 ml formic at 95% on a super hot day. Lol.
Probably why I dont have friends.

Buy him some magnifies so he can see.

Tell him to give you a dollar a mite for everyone on sticky board post treatment.

Have him arrested for impersonating a beekeeper.

Quarantine his hives for foulkeeper disease.

Just treat his hive next time he goes away for a day.

Just some really bad suggestions I know.
It's a problem having mite bombs in the neighborhood and I'm sure the treatment free people will tell me I'm an idiot.
Unless you have super mite maulers to start you have no chance to be treatment free at a small scale.

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

😁
2 Chronicles 7:14
14 If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.

Offline van from Arkansas

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Re: Doing the Right Thing
« Reply #17 on: July 01, 2019, 05:29:27 pm »
Troutdog:  Have him arrested for impersonating a beekeeper.

That is hilarious, a good one, Mr. Trout!!

Van
I have been around bees a long time, since birth.  I am a hobbyist so my answers often reflect this fact.  I concentrate on genetics, raise my own queens by wet graft, nicot, with natural or II breeding.  I do not sell queens, I will give queens  for free but no shipping.