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Author Topic: How much space  (Read 13358 times)

Offline craneman54

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How much space
« on: November 05, 2014, 05:25:29 pm »
How much space should there be between the bottoms of frames in lowest super to the top of the bottom board.

I am using the plans I downloaded here and it seems the space comes out to about 1/2".

I will be using a screened bottom board with a solid removable bottom board under the screened on.
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Offline OldMech

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Re: How much space
« Reply #1 on: November 05, 2014, 09:08:14 pm »

   It depends on which side of a standard commercial bottom board you use. One side is 3/8 and one side is 3/4.. The bottoms of my frames are about 1/8 of an inch over the standard 3/4 inch depth of my bottom boards.
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Offline craneman54

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Re: How much space
« Reply #2 on: November 05, 2014, 09:38:52 pm »
OK so the bees don't get back into the hive by going straight up from say the middle of the bottom board. Meaning they climb up the side walls to get to the frame.

I know they need at least a 3/8" opening to get into the hive. If you have the 3/8" opening at the entrance,what would be the max opening between the BB and the bottom of the frames?
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Offline thewhiterhino

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Re: How much space
« Reply #3 on: November 05, 2014, 09:52:26 pm »
From Wikipedia

In America

L.L. Langstroth's patent of 5 October 1852 adopted 3⁄8 inch (9.5 mm) between the side bars of a frame and hive wall, and also reserved rights to use the distance 1⁄2 inch (13 mm) between top-bars and inner cover, the latter of which represents a gap larger than optimal.

The term "bee space" was coined later than Langstroth's 1852 patent. Occasionally incorrect definitions are ascribed to "bee space". Term easily confused with "bee space" include: inter-comb space, 1⁄2 inch (13 mm); the distance from frame to hive wall, 1/4 to 3/8 inch (6.35 to 9.53 mm); and even the distance from frame to hive bottom, which can be as little as 1/4 inch but ranges to as much as 3/4 inch (6.35 to 19.05 mm).

Much of the space merges into the opinion range like many other things in beekeeping..

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Offline craneman54

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Re: How much space
« Reply #4 on: November 05, 2014, 11:11:20 pm »
Thanks
My hives fall within those dimensions.
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Offline BlueBee

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Re: How much space
« Reply #5 on: November 06, 2014, 02:18:18 am »
From a practical standpoint the “bee space” to the bottom board/surface isn’t as critical as other areas of the hive.  If the space is too great, the bees will simply add a little burr comb to the bottom of the frames and lay some drones.  Not a big deal, the hives need some drones.  I don’t recall off hand how much space I left, but it was at least a half inch.  Debris, dead bees, and other junk ends up falling down to the bottom board/screen and IMO a little extra space down there is a good thing.  A hive with a lot of bees will always have bees to act as a ladder to climb onto the combs if needed. 

Offline Culley

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Re: How much space
« Reply #6 on: November 06, 2014, 05:07:56 am »
I bought "risers" from a beekeeping supplier here and they were about 1cm high. Seems like a very small gap.

Offline Michael Bush

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Re: How much space
« Reply #7 on: November 06, 2014, 05:33:28 pm »
>How much space should there be between the bottoms of frames in lowest super to the top of the bottom board.

In other words between the bottom of the bottom bar and the bottom of the box?  1/8" is standard.
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Offline BlueBee

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Re: How much space
« Reply #8 on: November 06, 2014, 11:45:35 pm »
FWIW, none of my hives are even close to standard and I haven't had any problems. :)

Offline craneman54

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Re: How much space
« Reply #9 on: November 08, 2014, 02:57:16 pm »
Sorry I haven't responded in a few days. Life got in the way.

Mr Bush I am referring to the bottom of the frame to the top of the bottom board.

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Offline OPAVP

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Re: How much space
« Reply #10 on: November 08, 2014, 09:51:59 pm »
If you have the "Bee Space" on the lower side of the box at 3/8 " and the rim of the bottom board at 3/4",you have 1 1/8" !That seem to be industry standard.
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Offline BlueBee

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Re: How much space
« Reply #11 on: November 09, 2014, 01:21:51 am »
I’ve yet to hear a really good reason why to use the bottom board with the ¾” gap!  Just seems like an open door for mice, robbing, and poor regulation of airflow.  My entrance is 9mm tall spring, summer, winter, and fall.  No fooling around with mice guards or anything, just fix it at 9mm and watch the corn grow. :)

Offline OldMech

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Re: How much space
« Reply #12 on: November 09, 2014, 03:59:29 am »
I’ve yet to hear a really good reason why to use the bottom board with the ¾” gap!  Just seems like an open door for mice, robbing, and poor regulation of airflow.  My entrance is 9mm tall spring, summer, winter, and fall.  No fooling around with mice guards or anything, just fix it at 9mm and watch the corn grow. :)

 hehe, I have yet to hear a good reason to use the bottom boards 3/8 gap. Not enough ventilation in the heat of summer and too narrow to slide in my Oxalic Acid Vaporizor frame bleaching tool!!    :-D
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Offline rookie2531

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Re: How much space
« Reply #13 on: November 09, 2014, 07:54:26 am »
Sorry I haven't responded in a few days. Life got in the way.

Mr Bush I am referring to the bottom of the frame to the top of the bottom board.



He gave you that exact answer. If you were to take that bottom box, full of frames and set it on a flat surface, there should only be 1/8" clearance under each frame. Now if you are talking about the flat surface of the bottom board (the same level as the entrance), that is not the top. The top is the walls where the box sits on. If you want those dimensions, I would at least want 3/4"+1/8", as OldMech says, so I can treat.

Offline jayj200

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Re: How much space
« Reply #14 on: November 09, 2014, 09:40:26 am »
just measured and yes 1/8 is what I got. thought it was more but, not.

the width of all 1" lumber is 3/4" this will allow for an entrance feeder and an entrance reducer other widths would necessarily hamper these manipulations and other

Offline capt44

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Re: How much space
« Reply #15 on: November 09, 2014, 11:30:40 am »
I use 3/8 inch for the height of my entrances, it only takes 5/16 of an inch for bees. As long as they can pass back to back.
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Offline Michael Bush

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Re: How much space
« Reply #16 on: November 10, 2014, 09:15:23 am »
>Mr Bush I am referring to the bottom of the frame to the top of the bottom board.

That's what you said the first time, and it's still ambiguous.  The top of the frame around the bottom board?  The bottom of the hive (the floor)?  I'll just go from top to bottom.  Cover's vary, but the frames set on a frame rabbet that is 5/8" deep.  The frames are 3/8" deep on the ends which leaves 1/4" space between the top of the frames and the top of the box.  This leaves the bottom bar 1/8" up from the bottom of the box.  If you use a reversible bottom board with the skinny side up you will have between 3/8" and 1/2" (varies by manufacturer) from the floor to the bottom edge of the box which is between 1/2" and 5/8" from the floor to the bottom bars.  If you flip it over, you have a 3/4" rail and you get 7/8" from the floor to the bottom bar of the frames or 3/4" to the bottom edge of the bottom box.
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Offline craneman54

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Re: How much space
« Reply #17 on: November 10, 2014, 02:57:59 pm »
OK I made an error in explaining myself when Mr. Bush responded the first time. When I wrote this (Mr Bush I am referring to the bottom of the frame to the top of the bottom board.) I was affirming that he had understood what I wanted.

My fault for not explaining better.

If I caused some aggravation, I am sorry. I will try to do better in the future.
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Offline Michael Bush

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Re: How much space
« Reply #18 on: November 10, 2014, 04:05:59 pm »
No aggravation here.  I just want to understand your question to answer your question.  I hope I covered it.
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Offline craneman54

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Re: How much space
« Reply #19 on: November 10, 2014, 06:35:53 pm »
Yes you did tell me what I wanted to know.

Thank You
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