Package into nuc

[Bush_84]

So after my lousy winter and spring it?s time to think to the future. I was already buying some Nucs this spring but now that I?m down to one hive I?m thinking I need more than three. Unfortunately the guy I?m buying Nucs from is sold out. Mann lake is still selling packages so I may get a couple.

 Now I?m just thinking about doing something different. If five frame Nucs can overwinter why not overwinter packages in Nucs?  Second year hives are the most productive anyways. I was thinking of putting the Nucs I?m buying in my 8 frame equipment and the packages in Nucs. The Nucs are further ahead of the packages anyways. The packages might just do better in a nuc anyways. Thoughts?

[Acebird]

When will you get these packages?  Will the queen and colony have enough time to brood up winter bees?  The fact that your winter is long also means your summer is short.

[moebees]

I don't see anything wrong with overwintering nucs but a package will outgrow a nuc pretty fast and swarm.  You will probably need to split them to keep them nuc size.

[Van, Arkansas, USA]

Mr. Bush: I would like to point out want a difference four weeks can make regarding packages.  All things equal except for time frame of 4 weeks.

If I place 3 pound package of bees is a 10 frame deep, 3 frames waxed out, 5 frames open plastacell(no wax cells) and 1 sugar feeder in mid MARCH

Then do the exact same mid April:

The March packages will wax out 2 deeps by Fall.  That is TWO DEEPS OF WAX CELLS.
The April ?.        ?.       ?.          ? 1 deep by Fall.  That is ONE DEEP OF WAX CELLS.

All things equal except for time!!!!!  The sugar feeders are eventually replaced with open plastacell.

I just wanted a person to realize the difference a few weeks can make with packages of honey bees.  The above experience(s) has been repeated many times in my apiary.  My area is North Arkansas, blooms/buds/flowers begin in March, so adjust the dates accordingly to your area.
Blessings

[Bush_84]

Packages would arrive in a little over a week and would have through August to do their thing. My initial plan would be to grow them into double five frame Nucs and see if I could get any splits from their collective excess.

[Acebird]

My way of thinking is that you are further ahead letting them grow into a full size colony, bring them through winter and split in the spring.  You get the same number of hives but you let the parent prove they are survivors and something you what to propagate.

[cao]

The optimist in me says sure it would work but it could be risky.  With your shed, that could allow you to overwinter nucs and maybe those packages will grow enough to split later in the year to produce more nucs. 
The pessimist says you may be able to split them but how will they overwinter?  And even if they do, how long will it take them to build up next spring vs. a full size hive if you didn't try to keep them as nucs. 

I lost all 5 of my hives("nucs") this year that were in 5 frame boxes 3 boxes tall.  It was a little colder this year as opposed to last year when the 5 "nucs" that I had all made it through the winter just fine.  I know how impatient I was growing my apairy size.  It seems to take forever to get those first half a dozen or so.  And every loss is devastating.  Once you get to that point it don't take long and you have bees in 50+ boxes with a few of them still needing to be split.  It took me 6 years. 

Whatever you decide I wish you the best.

[Bush_84]

I?m going to give it a go. After losing all the packages I bought last year I figure I?ll try something different. Maybe by late June/early July I can take a frame or two of brood off of each package nuc and make another. Heck I have some five frame mediums that I could even super with lol.

[BeeMaster2]

Bush,
Were you able to save all of your drawn comb? If so you can give the packages a big start and put them way ahead by using it.
Jim

[Bush_84]

I?ve got boxes and boxes of drawn comb. Some are full of honey, some partial honey, and a few of pollen as well.

[Acebird]

I?ve got boxes and boxes of drawn comb. Some are full of honey, some partial honey, and a few of pollen as well.

The pollen they will most likely dig out but the drawn frames and honey will certainly give them a boost.

[sc-bee]

You need to google- you tube and watch Michael Palmer video "Sustainable Apiary" Nucs and overwintering them are the backbone of his operation along with Kirk Websters (which is where Palmer got it from). Yes you can overwinter them in double stacked nucs. Stacked against one another for warmth. It does create an issue that two fives don't fit a standard bottom. So Palmer makes 4 frame nucs

I think you will find the bees will grow quicker in 4-5 frames  nucs vs a ten frame box. Actually I know you will...

[Bush_84]

You need to google- you tube and watch Michael Palmer video "Sustainable Apiary" Nucs and overwintering them are the backbone of his operation along with Kirk Websters (which is where Palmer got it from). Yes you can overwinter them in double stacked nucs. Stacked against one another for warmth. It does create an issue that two fives don't fit a standard bottom. So Palmer makes 4 frame nucs

I think you will find the bees will grow quicker in 4-5 frames  nucs vs a ten frame box. Actually I know you will...

I?ve watched his talks more times than I can count. I soak in knowledge wherever I can and n every format. The biggest difference between Michael Palmer and myself is that I winter indoors. It changes how you approach wintering. As such I don?t have to put Nucs on top of production hives or so tightly packed. My hives still end up fairly tightly packed anyways. I did also put Nucs on production hives but not in the same sense as MP. Up to this winter i have used mountain camp method (will not be doing this again). I also use polystyrene insulation over the sugar. So the tops are pretty well insulated. My eke for the mountain camp has a built in upper entrance. So putting the nuc on top does not really offer much for heat other than heat rises and it?s higher up than other hives. I may also place my Nucs closer to the heater.

My experience and reading has shown that tighter bees tend to grow better as well. When the packages come I will not have a ton of time to install. So I plan on installing them in two Nucs. Bottom box with queen already installed and top box empty to use as a funnel. I?m not sure if I?ll need to use the second box right away or not. If packages are installed in 10 frame deeps there?s no reason I can?t install them in two stories right away with a feeder on top.

[cao]

>If packages are installed in 10 frame deeps there?s no reason I can?t install them in two stories right away with a feeder on top.

I would think that with drawn comb in five frame boxes that you would need to install the in two stories.  I think it might be a little cramped otherwise.  A frame or two of honey would go a long way in feeding them.  They might not even need the top feeder.

[Acebird]

If packages are installed in 10 frame deeps there?s no reason I can?t install them in two stories right away with a feeder on top.

I think follower boards are used.  The reason for installing in a 10 frame is to eliminate the need to transfer.

[harlowr]

A package put into a double deep 5 frame nuc would swarm within a few weeks.  Queen would run out of room quickly unless you stacked the nuc boxes pretty high. 

[Bush_84]

A package put into a double deep 5 frame nuc would swarm within a few weeks.  Queen would run out of room quickly unless you stacked the nuc boxes pretty high.

Bee math indicates that the population would be decreasing in two weeks. The hive won?t see a new bee until three weeks.

[Bush_84]

Packages have been in for a week. My first inspection showed that both queens were released and laying. I didn?t want to bother them much more than removing queen cages and checking for eggs. I installed in two five frame nucs. They are using both boxes. Top box has brood in the inner three frames. Probably a fairly safe assumption that the bottom box is similar. When that first round of brood is ready to emerge I?ll add a third box.  Over that third box I?ll put an excluder and then a super.

My plan will be to remove the third box once it?s full and give it a queen. At this rate they should be able to accomplish this in a month or so. I?m assuming I?ll be able to do this once if at all. I?ll just have to see how it goes. I plan on wintering them in two deep nucs.