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Author Topic: WSU varrora study.  (Read 2063 times)

Offline JackM

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WSU varrora study.
« on: May 28, 2018, 10:47:35 am »
I cannot locate the original article.  The Washington State University Apiary group did a study on breaking the varrora mite cycle.  They artificially cooled the environment to below freezing to simulate winter when the queen stops laying and the brood cycle stops.  Mite counts were done before the cooling.  After rewarming and the queen began to lay again the mite count went to 0, as in none, nada.

My take on this is that a 1-3 week break in the brood, as in a queenless hive or split will interrupt the mite cycle and not need chemicals.  If someone were to stumble over the article I would appreciate it being posted to back my statements up.
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Offline Dustymunky

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Re: WSU varrora study.
« Reply #1 on: May 28, 2018, 11:14:35 am »
I think brood breaks are helpful in slowing down mites. 1 week probably does nothing. 3 weeks  would be a good interruption in their life cycle. Mites live 8 weeks plus so they could ride out 1 week easily.

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Offline little john

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Re: WSU varrora study.
« Reply #3 on: May 28, 2018, 11:23:36 am »
There's also a write-up at:
https://healthybeesllc.com/new-bee-research-suggests-keeping-them-in-the-dark-will-help-curb-varroa-mite-attacks/

Ignore the title of that article - the writer of it appears to have missed the point ...
LJ
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Offline moebees

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Re: WSU varrora study.
« Reply #4 on: May 28, 2018, 11:46:07 am »


My take on this is that a 1-3 week break in the brood, as in a queenless hive or split will interrupt the mite cycle and not need chemicals.  If someone were to stumble over the article I would appreciate it being posted to back my statements up.

That is the idea behind the Mel Disselkoen artificial supercedure method.
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Offline Bush_84

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Re: WSU varrora study.
« Reply #5 on: May 28, 2018, 02:59:27 pm »
So how is it that we have varroa in the frozen north?  Surely bees don?t spread it from the south every year?
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Also please excuse the typos.  My iPad autocorrect can be brutal.

Offline little john

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Re: WSU varrora study.
« Reply #6 on: May 28, 2018, 03:37:13 pm »
So how is it that we have varroa in the frozen north?  Surely bees don?t spread it from the south every year?

I was thinking exactly the same thing - there are many parts of the world where there's a 'proper winter', with zero brood for several months, let alone a few weeks - AND some of us dose our hives with VOA during that time, while they're broodless - and yet the Varroa mite is still surviving somehow, somewhere - only to start it's life-cycle all over again, come spring.

However, if these winter brood breaks are as devastating to the mites as claimed - could be this provide an explanation as to why some folks are more successful with their 'Treatment-Free' approach than others ?  Could TF simply be down to a helping hand from a winter mite cull ?  It would sure be useful to know why the TF approach works for some and not for others.
LJ
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Offline moebees

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Re: WSU varrora study.
« Reply #7 on: May 28, 2018, 07:12:35 pm »
So how is it that we have varroa in the frozen north?  Surely bees don?t spread it from the south every year?

Since much of the northern bee population is replaced every year with packages from the south and California I don't see why not.  Also, there is allot of evidence that winter does not create a substantial brood break.  Studies that have looked at it and opened hived during the winter have found small patches of brood.  Here is a fascinating lecture on it https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pok9lAs-QR0
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Van, Arkansas, USA

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Re: WSU varrora study.
« Reply #8 on: May 28, 2018, 11:01:14 pm »
I listen to the speaker speak about Dr. Jeffery and his 14 hives in a single apiary.  In each hive there were brood breaks of 8 weeks, sept thru October one year whereas the following year was dec thru Jan.

The speaker chose not to focus on Dr. Jeffery?s work rather he focuses on another study by another individual in which there were few brood breaks.

The above methods are not science.  We must look at the data, all the data, even data that does not support our bias unless one can {q} test the data out of range which was not the case.

Eight {8} weeks is substantial brood break to me and this is what I see in my apiary.  I?ll stick with Dr. Jeff and agree with his studies.  They are spot on.

Also the study was done not in the US but some other country, the speaker did not say which country in the first half I listened to so maybe a semi tropical climate as far as I know.

As soon as I realized he focused on preferred data and not actual data, I quit listening.  Maybe his summary was without bias.  Did you listen to the entire lecture?

Offline moebees

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Re: WSU varrora study.
« Reply #9 on: May 29, 2018, 04:16:35 am »
I listen to the speaker speak about Dr. Jeffery and his 14 hives in a single apiary.  In each hive there were brood breaks of 8 weeks, sept thru October one year whereas the following year was dec thru Jan.

Actually that is not what the data showed.  The hives were quite variable with less than half of them(6 the first year) exhibiting what you describe. Seven of them the first year had either no brood break or one month. The following year data collection did not begin until november and again 6 of the 14 had lengthy (8 week) broodless periods.  The only consistent aspect was that all or nearly all hives did have brood stops at some point but not necessarily continues gaps or breaks.  These studies were done by actual hive inspections throughout the winter period in which the criteria was weather warm enough for the bees to be flying.  So one could question whether this study was done under truly cold weather conditions.
The speaker chose not to focus on Dr. Jeffery?s work rather he focuses on another study by another individual in which there were few brood breaks.

Actually it is Dr Jeffree and I understand your confusion because the speaker misspoke during the presentation and actually the data you are referring to (14 hives, single apiary, two seasons) was done by Bernard Mobus during the mid 1970s.  Dr Jeffree's work was from the 1950s.  At any rate the speaker spent approximately 6 min of a 43 min talk including Q&A discussing this study out of the 9 studies he talks about. He also presents tables of the raw data from each season of the study.  The last claim you can legitimately make is that he chose not to focus on this work.
The above methods are not science.  We must look at the data, all the data, even data that does not support our bias unless one can {q} test the data out of range which was not the case.
 
I can make no sense of these statements.  You want to Q test a review of literature?  And you want to look at all the data like viewing the first 10 minutes of a presentation and then stopping when you think what has been said up to that point confirms what you believe to be true?

Eight {8} weeks is substantial brood break to me and this is what I see in my apiary.  I?ll stick with Dr. Jeff and agree with his studies.  They are spot on.

This is what we refer to as confirmation bias.
Also the study was done not in the US but some other country, the speaker did not say which country in the first half I listened to so maybe a semi tropical climate as far as I know.

What study was not done in the US?  Are we only allowed to discuss US based studies?  The speaker made no mention of sub-tropical studies.  You simply pulled that from your biased point of view.  The outdoor studies he mentions were conducted in Scotland (the one you love so much) the U.S (guess that is a good one then) and Canada (is that cold enough).  Other studies he did not specify their location but since they were conducted under climate controlled conditions is doesn't seem relevant. 

And speaking of sub tropical, are Arkansas winters really a good test for what is being discussed?  One of the reasons this kind of data is interesting to northern beekeepers where it is impossible to open hives for several months at a time is that we are dealing with a black box situation.  You will hear beekeepers talking about what is going on in the hives in winter but we really know very little where it is too cold to open them.  In the Canadian study mentioned they killed hives each month throughout the winter to find out what was going on.  They found brood ever month during a Canadian winter.
As soon as I realized he focused on preferred data and not actual data, I quit listening.  Maybe his summary was without bias.  Did you listen to the entire lecture?
Yes I listened to the entire lecture.  I think you have admirably demonstrated where the bias is. 
[/quote]
Bee-keeping is like raising Martians  - Isabella Rosselini

Van, Arkansas, USA

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Re: WSU varrora study.
« Reply #10 on: May 29, 2018, 09:52:07 am »
Moe, I thank you for your detailed review.

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Van, Arkansas, USA

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Re: WSU varrora study.
« Reply #11 on: May 29, 2018, 10:03:09 am »
If a person wishes to see inside the hive in the cold of winter, don?t open the hive use a WiFi endoscope.  This is what I use, a flexible cable with lights, camera: 3/8 inch wide 2 ft long and is viewed on my iPhone.

If I use in summer the bees cover the lens so it is best used in winter only when bees are clustered.
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Offline JackM

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Re: WSU varrora study.
« Reply #12 on: May 29, 2018, 10:11:23 am »
Van, that was the article, and thank you for finding and posting for me.
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Offline moebees

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Re: WSU varrora study.
« Reply #13 on: May 29, 2018, 06:24:35 pm »
If a person wishes to see inside the hive in the cold of winter, don?t open the hive use a WiFi endoscope.  This is what I use, a flexible cable with lights, camera: 3/8 inch wide 2 ft long and is viewed on my iPhone.

If I use in summer the bees cover the lens so it is best used in winter only when bees are clustered.
Blessings

I have not tried that but have seen video where someone did that.  My impression is that you get a very limited view of what is going on.  How do you find it?  Also, if they are clustered I would think it would be near impossible to see if there was brood or not.
Bee-keeping is like raising Martians  - Isabella Rosselini