New kind of ant, what is it???

[van from Arkansas]

These ants just appeared this year.  Extremely fast, never still, nervous little critters.  Can any person identify?  Is this ant a serious, minor or no threat to bees.
Van

[van from Arkansas]

[Nock]

Not sure what kind but look like ones we have here.

[beesnweeds]

I could be totally wrong, but from your description and photo it looks like Rasberry Crazy Ants.

[BeeMaster2]

When I looked at I thought it was the size of a carpenter ant. If so then it is not a Rasberry Crazy Ant. They are about the size of a fire ant.
How big are these ants?
Jim Altmiller

[van from Arkansas]

Jim, They are a about half the size of the black carpenter ant, but a lil larger than a fire ant.  I google the raspberry crazy ant per beesnweeds.  Yep, looks correct according to the very long ant antenna which is kind of unique to the crazy ant.  Thank beesnweeds and Jim.

I take it no serious threat to beehives.  Agreed???

[BeeMaster2]

Van,
Hopefully someone in Texas will know if they bother hives. I will see if I can find my buddy?s number and see if he had any problems.
Jim Altmiller

[TheHoneyPump]

Ants are closely related to bees, are they not.  If so, then would ants not also just be a bunch of mixed up mutts? 

You can also try bugguide.net which is an excellent reference, for all things bugs of course.

https://bugguide.net/node/view/165
https://bugguide.net/node/view/165/bgpage

[The15thMember]

Ants are closely related to bees, are they not.  If so, then would ants not also just be a bunch of mixed up mutts? 

You can also try bugguide.net which is an excellent reference, for all things bugs of course.

https://bugguide.net/node/view/165
https://bugguide.net/node/view/165/bgpage

While ants and bees are closely related, all ants cannot crossbreed with all ants and neither can all bees. Very closely related species could crossbreed in the wild and probably do in certain cases, but even when they can, I doubt how frequently it occurs. 

Van, I?ve been trying to ID this ant for you and I?m stumped. It?s hard to ID ants using online resources because ants are household pests regardless of species almost without exception, which means most people don?t need to ID a species of ant in order to want to get rid of it, they only want to distinguish all ants from termites. Also ants aren?t popular like bees or butterflies, so most people don?t go, ?Ooh! A cool ant!? and then post a picture of it on their blog or website.

I did find one ant that looks really close, the banded sugar ant, but the species only lives in Australia, so it can?t be right.  I don?t think it?s a raspberry crazy ant either, as they don?t have black heads, and I?ve found that in the insect world if the bug is a little different from a similar bug, it?s probably a lot different.

I guess the only thing left to try is the endless scrolling of bugguide. You could also post the picture on bugguide and get some help from their ID people.   

[The15thMember]

Oh my gosh, I may have found it! I started searching through the genus of the banded sugar ant on bugguide and I found this species. The range is right and the size is about a cm which seems like what you described, Van. Camponotus americanus. Does this look right, Van? If so, the species is a soil nester and not considered a major pest.
https://bugguide.net/node/view/35642

[TheHoneyPump]

It would be quite an amazing feat to put the finger on which one species the ant is out of, what, like 20,000 species of ants!

As a separate interesting discovery as a possible ant deterrent. Earlier in the season I had been feeding syrup by pails on top of the inner cover.  Of course some spilled and of course the ants found it.  On some of the hives the ants took on to move into the penthouse.  They hauled in cut leaves, their eggs, some fresh caterpillars meat to chew on, etc.  Quite the setup they had going there.  All the furniture arranged and cozy.  They looked astounded when I took the lid off their house! haha.

Here is the interesting discovery.  Earlier in the season I also had some spent thymol strips left in a few hives (Thymovar /  Apivar stuff).  On some of the hives evidently I had removed the strips and placed them on top of the inner cover, and forget them there.  Guess what, those hives in the same yard had no ants bother them.  Not a one.  As an experiment, I put a few pieces of those strips in the ant penthouse.  A week later they were gone, place was clean as a whistle.  I did not need to hold back their damage deposit.  ;)

So, if you are having problems with ants in the attics of your hives, you might try placing something thymol based.  On a separate ant loitering hive I have another experiment going.  A three drops of tea tree oil right into the top side of the wood of the inner cover.  Note:  I do not use top entrances nor top ventilation.  The inner covers are merely there for bee space above the top bars of the top box of the hive.  They are otherwise sealed.  Hence is a cozy warm sweet place for ants to hang out.

[BeeMaster2]

Van,
Beware, Carpenter Ants can and do kill a strong hive, or at least make them abscond. I have real problems with them.
Jim Altmiller

[The15thMember]

Van,
Beware, Carpenter Ants can and do kill a strong hive, or at least make them abscond. I have real problems with them.
Jim Altmiller

Perhaps I am wrong about them not being a problem.  I though that the issue with carpenter ants was that they nest in the hive.  Are they problematic regardless? 

It would be quite an amazing feat to put the finger on which one species the ant is out of, what, like 20,000 species of ants!

I am in no way saying my potential ID is 100% accurate.  Many times it's not possible to accurately ID an insect without a microscope or even a dissection.  I'm simply saying that I think this species looks really close, and I'm just betting that this species and other species very closely related to it have similar habits.  Since Van's primary concern is knowing whether this ant is a threat to a hive or not (and not say, identifying the insect for an insect collection, where being exact would be important), I feel like getting close is close enough. 

As a separate interesting discovery as a possible ant deterrent. Earlier in the season I had been feeding syrup by pails on top of the inner cover.  Of course some spilled and of course the ants found it.  On some of the hives the ants took on to move into the penthouse.  They hauled in cut leaves, their eggs, some fresh caterpillars meat to chew on, etc.  Quite the setup they had going there.  All the furniture arranged and cozy.  They looked astounded when I took the lid off their house! haha.

Here is the interesting discovery.  Earlier in the season I also had some spent thymol strips left in a few hives (Thymovar /  Apivar stuff).  On some of the hives evidently I had removed the strips and placed them on top of the inner cover, and forget them there.  Guess what, those hives in the same yard had no ants bother them.  Not a one.  As an experiment, I put a few pieces of those strips in the ant penthouse.  A week later they were gone, place was clean as a whistle.  I did not need to hold back their damage deposit.  ;)

So, if you are having problems with ants in the attics of your hives, you might try placing something thymol based.  On a separate ant loitering hive I have another experiment going.  A three drops of tea tree oil right into the top side of the wood of the inner cover.  Note:  I do not use top entrances nor top ventilation.  The inner covers are merely there for bee space above the top bars of the top box of the hive.  They are otherwise sealed.  Hence is a cozy warm sweet place for ants to hang out.

 
This very thing happened to me a couple weeks ago.  I popped the top on one of my hives, and all set up in the top between the covers is a colony of little black ants.  Not a huge threat to the hive to be sure, but nonetheless rather unwelcome tenants.  I took off the inner cover and ran it down to every farm's ultimate insect disposal machine, the chickens.  I was surprised that the ants don't seem to stick down their eggs, they were all just rolling around on the cover as I walked.  The funny part was that as I walked to the chickens, the ants started crawling up my arm and into my suit.  I didn't think anything of it, since they weren't a dangerous kind of ant, but to my surprise, once they fond my skin, they started pinching me with their pinchers!  They weren't going to let me destroy their home without a fight.  I looked pretty funny, unsuiting and trying to shake them out of my veil and yelling "OW!" every couple of seconds!     Good to know about the thymol.  I usually use cinnamon as an ant deterrent in the hive, and I also put a moat of wood ashes around the hives.     

     

[van from Arkansas]

Oh my gosh, I may have found it! I started searching through the genus of the banded sugar ant on bugguide and I found this species. The range is right and the size is about a cm which seems like what you described, Van. Camponotus americanus. Does this look right, Van? If so, the species is a soil nester and not considered a major pest.
https://bugguide.net/node/view/35642

Member, thanks.  The pics look like an exact copy: down to the long ant Antennae, dark head, lite colored body.

[Ben Framed]

Oh my gosh, I may have found it! I started searching through the genus of the banded sugar ant on bugguide and I found this species. The range is right and the size is about a cm which seems like what you described, Van. Camponotus americanus. Does this look right, Van? If so, the species is a soil nester and not considered a major pest.
https://bugguide.net/node/view/35642

Member, thanks.  The pics look like an exact copy: down to the long ant Antennae, dark head, lite colored body.

Mr Van, Im glad you do not have the crazy ants.

Good research Member. the best part
"Since these ants live in the soil, they aren't considered to be harmful pests."

[BeeMaster2]

Ben,
Don?t tell my bees that, you would probably take a few injections for that comment. 😊
Carpenter ants can bee destructive to buildings as their name Replies. They build their homes in wood. When I was living in Bermuda, a closet hanger pole collapsed one evening. Carpenter ants came pouring out. They chewed away the wood below the pole.
Jim Altmiller

[Ben Framed]

Ben,
Don?t tell my bees that, you would probably take a few injections for that comment. 😊
Carpenter ants can bee destructive to buildings as their name Replies. They build their homes in wood. When I was living in Bermuda, a closet hanger pole collapsed one evening. Carpenter ants came pouring out. They chewed away the wood below the pole.
Jim Altmiller

Yes sir, I agree that ants, especially carpenter ants are very destructive. I copied that statement from the report that Member had posted, which I took as the best part of the report in Mr Vans case

Size
7-10mm
Identification
Tan with a dark head. The abdomen may have mottling or a spot on it unlike the similar C. castaneus, that has a light colored head, and no mottling.
Range
New England to Florida over to Texas.
Habitat
Usually found under rocks or logs.
Remarks
Since these ants live in the soil, they aren't considered to be harmful pests.
Internet References
Myrmecos
UNC.edu
Entclub
Ms State
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