Beemaster's International Beekeeping Forum
BEEKEEPING LEARNING CENTER => GENERAL BEEKEEPING - MAIN POSTING FORUM. => Topic started by: Acebird on June 30, 2020, 05:30:09 pm
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I use to be able to walk up to any hive up north and pull the weeds away from the hive without the bees getting excited. Two or three weeks ago I tried it down here and they came after me. I tried it again today and they still get excited. Is this normal? Last time it happened I opened the hive to see if they were crowded and the bees in the hive seem to be calm. They weren't crowded. So far this hive has been slow compared to what I am use to up north. Are we in a dearth now for southern FL.?
Before I go in I was wondering what to expect for this location.
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"Is it normal in the south"
It is not normal in my area of the South Ace. At least that is not normal for me.
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Ace,
In the Florida Panhandle we have a dearth from mid June after "popcorn" trees (Chinese Tallow or Sapiferum sebiferum). It lasts a couple of weeks until the Sabal Palms start. Our Sabals just started full swing this week (end of June) and it's a heavy flow with white wax being drawn. It'll be followed by a lighter amount from native sumac, Liriope ("monkey grass"), mexican clover, etc.
So yes, in early summer, there's a couple of crabby weeks where there are a great many bees, not a lot to munch on, and my robbing screens are on. Most beeks here locally harvest right before this dearth.
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Most beeks here locally harvest right before this dearth.
Doesn't that make the matter worse? I would think it causes starvation also.
Thanks for your post. Maybe I should leave the weeds there during this period kinda like natures robber screen.
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Ace,
I just mowed right up against al of the hives in my yard with a riding mower. I do go at a very slow speed. Yesterday I weedwacked in the front, back and between the hives. Not a single bee came to challenge me. We are definitely in a dearth.
I pulled the honey Supers last month. The bees store a lot of honey around the brood, so they still have plenty of food. I do feed them sugar water one a week or so, open feeding. They do not get constant feed to keep them from building up.
You probably have a queen less hive or something is bothering them at night.
Jim Altmiller
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Ace,
You are south of I-4. You may have had Africanized queens take over your hives.
Jim Altmiller
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I've noticed also that the bees are a little testy when it's reaaaally hot. Remember, the heat index today in our area is 110 degrees because of humidity...despite the temp really being "only 92."
Last July/August I had a shade sail up over the hives, it seemed to cool things down a bit, and provide relief for both bees and beekeeper. Haven't put it up yet for this year - or put up an alternative - but it's definitely time to do that.
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Jim I don't think there has been a take over but it is possible the queen mated with africanized drones. That would explain some calm and some not.
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Mr. Ace, you know how to handle bees so in this case, I would say definitely not the beeks fault. The bees act a lil testy, common with some hives. I mow up to my bees but I am careful about mower discharge direction. If memory serves me correctly the hive you speak of was a freebie, swarm moved into stored equipment. Kinda odd that the bees can be inspected remaining calm but defensive at removing weeds at the entrance? Maybe pull the weeds like you are inspecting, which is most likely slow. Bees are so dynamic.
Can?t comment on Florida bloom but in Arkansas, we are in a dearth: in the Ozark Forested mountains that is.
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So Jim, what you are describing - about managing colony size over the sequence of spring and summer - really is a fine science. I have yet to figure that out with finesse.
Our season here starts early, and is long. I have picked up a swarm at the end of August. For best honey production, one would suppose the ideal is the highest number of bees, feeding the least amount brood, during the biggest flow, then a diminishment afterward so the bees do not need to eat all they produced.
So perhaps in concept...one would make up splits right before the peak flow as long as a beek has the equipment and market for splits. I haven't figured out the perfect orchestral tipping point yet.
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GF,
I control their food intake while we are in a dearth. During the spring, before the flow, I feed to get the bees to build up to be ready for the flow. I stop when the supers go on.
Jim Altmiller
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Nope. I have caught nothing but feral swarms since I got back to keeping the bees, and I've not had a mean hive yet. I regularly use a grass sickle to trim grass around my hives and with my hand waving all over the place, nobody has decided I should be chased away, or even fly in front of my face.
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During the spring, before the flow, I feed to get the bees to build up to be ready for the flow. I stop when the supers go on.
Jim Altmiller
That is typical management for beeks looking for the greatest output even up north. I have no need for the greatest output so I don't feed. I also value honey that is not the least bit contaminated with fed sugar. Feeding negates uncontaminated honey no matter how careful you are.
I have no experience with southern FL. It is like I am a new beek and a new gardener. Fruit trees that flower while they are bearing fruit. They act like a tomato plant.
The message I am getting from everyone is that bees should not be aggressive down here with exceptions... Heat, weather, genetics, prey, dearth, or maybe pests can turn their mood. Heat, weather, and genetics is much different then up north.
Jim I mow my property with a John Deer tractor with a mowing deck within about 4 ft of the side of the hive. No problem at all. There is not enough room to mow in front. My wife being an antique-er we had three sighs back north that were left. Just another 20/20 hindsight lesson. I am sure there are hundreds of sighs down here but covid has curtailed tag sale-ing for us.
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I found that mowing and trimming around my hives was best done late in the day, even after sundown. Never a head-butt or angry bees. These were local feral bees from swarm traps and cutouts, one from a large open air colony. I guess when all the foragers come in there?s better things for them to do.
I have gotten bees from the Lakeland area that were so calm you could visit them with no protection.
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I pluck grass, clover etc from in front of the hives whenever needed. I tend to move slowly just out of habit. Can't remember the last time one got me for this.
Years ago my Dad had a couple of hives near the woodline behind his orchard. He was sick for a year and they went one season without visitation. I went to check on them and was stung at ~15 feet out. They had apparently been taken over (through breeding or otherwise) by feral German bees. They were having none of it. This was in 2008 (mid-TN) so Africanized bees are not the only way to get mean bees.
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So in Australia, a poster here mentioned he painted aluminum telescoping lids with white paint to cut down on heat absorption.
We've had a heat index of 105-109 this week. I need to inspect all hives, but can only do one or two before the heat sets in. Well I could get up in the dark at 5:30 but I'm not quite to that point yet (*sigh*). By 6:30 or 7 am it's already hot because it never drops below 85 at night. I'm told this year is a record-breaker for heat.
My question is, does anyone else have experience with a painted aluminum lid keeping it cooler? (Ahem) because last week I broke off a foundationless comb that wasn't attached at the bottom and I had to do the toothpicks-and-rubberbands fix.
Or does painting the tin lid cause an endless cycle of peeling paint, paint flakes all over the apiary ground, and repainting? Thx -
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If that is the case you might try a product called Cool Seal. Rolls on with a roller but very thick. Supposedly seals and is also a shield from heat.
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The lids I have came with a white finish.
Painting them, I wouldn?t call it and endless cycle with paint all over the yard. Proper paint wit a scuff job first...
I just put down the foil lined foam insulation to curtail a temporary fix I had to do. I needed to use what I had in hand for a lid, a piece of black slate.
I?m sure you could put a piece of foam inside the rim of the cover and resist some heat, or put it over the cover and weigh it down to reflect the sun and insulate. (https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200715/0c981f2f8461177a9162be3f218f3220.jpg)
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> I?m sure you could put a piece of foam inside the rim of the cover and resist some heat, or put it over the cover and weigh it down to reflect the sun and insulate.
I tried that, I found the bees would eventually chew their way through creating a new opening through that insulation board.. Which is fine but not desired by me. But apparently desired by the bees. lol. My intention was to use it year round like one of our members here from Florida does with success, helping with heat in summer and condensation in winter. Maybe the top vent made by the bees is ok in both circumstances? If they do not like their self made vent they could always propolize it back shut? lol :happy:
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If you wanted to, you could a piece of lauan underlayment board and use construction adhesive to bond the wood to it. Wood side down should keep them from chewing it.
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The telescoping lid I made has a 2.5 inch pine rim, and inside it under 3/8 exterior ply primed & painted...is 1 inch R5 insulation board.
The inner lid with bee space-side down and 1/8" mesh over the escape stops the bees from chewing the insulation. The mesh makes top on the inner lid into yet another SHB jail. SHB are pushed out of the top of the hive body and stay between the inner lid and telescoping lid. Where, I hope, they starve in hopes of sneaking back in. Usually I smash them when I open the top.
I have the $11 sheet metal lid cover from Dadant nailed to the top of the telescoping lid. This is what I was wondering about painting to keep the hive cooler.
And yes I have a top entrance for heat vent, as well as a reduced bottom entrance when the hive is big enough. The bees all prefer the top entrances. They will festoon on the top in the evening, instead of bearding on the front. Even though I know there's plenty of room in the hive.
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When you put your covers on with insulation in them, pull them all the way to the back so that there is no place for them to start chewing on the insulation. They have never started chewing on the sides or back. It is always on the front where my top entrance is.
Jim Altmiller
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What I did which may be incorrect, is cut my insulation board the exact same size as the top box. I laid the insulation board down as a top, then laid my sheet of Advantech on top of this. The resourceful bees eventually chewed a hole from the inside to the outside between the top box and Advantech top on the front. I suppose for ventilation. Perhaps they needed this extra ventilation both winter and summer?
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Wow where did this thread go?
Yesterday I went into the hive and found most of the bees missing. Well that must mean they swarmed and I didn't know it. Or else it seriously got robbed and I didn't know it. So I down sized the hive.
I was able to mow the 5 ft weeds with a hand mower around the hive with no problem and then stand directly in front of the hive with no problem. Maybe the aggression was they were getting ready to swarm.
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Sorry, Acebird....we drifted from "hot" (fizzy) bees to "hot" (thermally challenged) bees.
:oops:
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No problem. I've done it myself.