Returning to beekeeping after a long lull ..

[Dora]

Hi all,
I think I mainly  lurked here (under a different name) when we last kept bees in British Columbia, Canada. It was not too long after my father stopped beekeeping when varroa came up our way. He had kept his bees anti-biotic and treatment free, and he wasn't about to start treating for varroa. There was little info on what to do at the time, and he lost most of his bees ...

My beekeeping background goes way back to Germany where I remember watching bees come and go out of skeps as a child. Then my dad built these new-fangled Langstroth hives, and watching the bees became more interesting, because I could watch the bees on the landing board. Both my mom and dad were beekeepers and started up beekeeping again in Canada some time after they settled in BC. Canada.

At any rate, we inherited my parent's beekeeping equipment when we started to keep bees some time around 2005 or so ... don't remember exactly when. I lost our three hives one winter through sheer greediness and stupidity. We had had a good fall flow, and I took some honey off and failed to feed the bees. That my father died that winter probably wasn't a really good excuse, but I suspect it did contribute to my neglect. I felt *so* bad when I saw the corpses of my poor little bees stuck in their cells, with no stores at all left ... I think that was after 4 or 5 years ...

In the meantime we moved to Texas, and now that we are settled, the beekeeping genes are speaking up again. But after a lull of over 10 years *and* a totally different climate, I'm having to learn all over again. The first hurdle was gardening here: I was excited to live in a zone with a *long* gardening season. Ha! Was I mistaken! We have two *short* seasons here - a spring season and a fall season. So I'm guessing that there'll be a long lull between honey flows as well. *If* we have flows, *if* it rains.

On top of that, it seems that bees cost 4 times as much from what I remember. But maybe I just got a really good deal for 2 hives from the local bee inspector in BC because he really liked my parents? I dunno ..

Anyhoo .. I'm so thankful for this forum. I would love to know if there's anyone else here from the Texas Hill Country.

I'm aiming for treatment free, chemical-free bees. Michael Bush gave me hope that this is possible, and I see that many of the bees offered now are supposedly VSH strains, but it's a little confusing when the instructions include how to treat for varroa 3 times a year!

I've been looking into how to get 3 hives started. I'm thinking of getting one BeeWeaver Nuc and a couple of cheaper Italian  packages for about the same price as the Nuc. Still seems a big investment...

I understand that here in Texas, SHB are more of a problem than varroa? Maybe I should start with beetle traps from the get-go? (Planning on screened bottom boards. Had those in BC already, with a sliding tray beneath.)

[cao]

Welcome 

I have been treatment free for the 10 years that I have kept bees.  Now have around 60 hives.  It is possible.  And yes the price of bees has increased quite a bit in those ten years.

[Kathyp]

You are right that it has gotten more expensive.  I think because the "save the bees" thing is a...thing.   

Welcome.  Hope you can find the info you need and share what you can.  The search function is usually pretty good, but I don't think anyone really minds repeat questions if you don't find stuff.

[Ben Framed]

Welcome to Beemaster Dora!!

Phillip

[Terri Yaki]

Welcome Dora, I am going to start my beekeeping adventures this spring and am just taking in what I can here to get ahead of the curve as much as possible. Cao, I'd like to hear how you remain treatment free and successful, it looks like I'm a little warmer than you, if that's relevant. I'm in 7a but IIRC, I was in 6b last year.

[The15thMember]

Welcome to Beemaster, Dora!    I'm also keeping bees with a goal of being treatment free, or at least mostly.  I'm not there yet, but I am at the point where I'm only treating with organic treatments when necessary, and I'm working on managing and breeding my bees to not need those either.     

[BeeMaster2]

Dura,
Welcome to Beemaster.
The best way to eliminate small hive beetles is with oil trays. I killed thousands of them in each hive every month during my second year of beekeeping. They worked so well that the next year my neighbor and I both were able to stop putting oil in the trays. We had a total of 17 hives so we killed a lot of SHBs. What is nice about oil trays is that they kill the adults and the larvae leaving the hive to pupate.
Good luck.
Jim Altmiller

[Dora]

Thank  you all for the warm welcome.

@cao

Welcome 

I have been treatment free for the 10 years that I have kept bees.  Now have around 60 hives.  It is possible. 

So happy to see more beemasters successsfully going treatment free. I think it allows the bees to adapt.

Dura,
Welcome to Beemaster.
The best way to eliminate small hive beetles is with oil trays. I killed thousands of them in each hive every month during my second year of beekeeping. They worked so well that the next year my neighbor and I both were able to stop putting oil in the trays. We had a total of 17 hives so we killed a lot of SHBs. What is nice about oil trays is that they kill the adults and the larvae leaving the hive to pupate.
Good luck.
Jim Altmiller

Thank you, Jim! That sounds great! So now I'll have to look up what you mean by "oil trays." 😉

[animal]

Hi and welcome.
The oil tray is just what it sounds like ... a tray of oil under the screen on the bottom board. Beetles get chased through the screen by the bees and fall in. Then you deal with the little stinker's bodies by the hundreds or more.
Here's the assembly I made which uses a US standard disposable aluminum 1/4 sheet cake pan (I built it that way with other experiments in mind and "full bottom" before I knew the bees actually chase the buggers:
https://beemaster.com/forum/index.php?topic=56595.msg519130#msg519130

Cao's version .. half-screened board ... much easier to build and takes advantage of the bees doing the work of chasing them. Smaller tray is also much easier to handle when the oil wants to slosh.
https://beemaster.com/forum/index.php?topic=56595.msg519147#msg519147

Lesgold's version ...link below plus two posts following it ... everything he builds really cool, but it's all upside down ... (bad dad jokes never get old, because they begin that way)
https://beemaster.com/forum/index.php?topic=56161.msg524161#msg524161

I put used cooking oil in mine. Almost positive Ben Framed does too, as well as several others .. but pretty much any oil will do. So if you just want to spend extra bucks on something like pure mineral oil, it'll still work. Just make sure the bees can chase the beetles into it without getting into it themselves.

I'm a complete newbie to this bee stuff, btw. Just started from absolute zero in May with 1 salvaged from a cut-out, twice poisoned, once hive beetle attacked hive. The only reason I still have a living hive is because of the helpful people on this site.

[Dora]

Wow, thank you so much, "animal"!

I got the idea of what the oil trays are but wondered how the beetles got into it. So they enter through the regular hive entrance, and the bees chase them down through the screen?

That would be 1/8" screen, I would guess, same as the varroa screen? Those beetles must be really small! (Hadn't done enough research on those .... just read that they are a bigger problem in Texas than varroa right now.) And the varroa will still drop through the screen as well ...

For a "complete newbie," you are super helpful. Thank you!

[animal]

For a "complete newbie," you are super helpful. Thank you!

Well you're welcome but ... call it a Christmas miracle. 
Mostly, I'm asking stupid questions about bee stuff and being sarcastic or politically incorrect on the other topics. You're female, so don't worry. You'll be annoyed by me in no time. 
I mentioned that I'm a newbie so you'll take what I say with a grain of salt;  and know that when I'm right about something, it's because I learned it from others here. Everyone here is helpful, and oddly enough for an internet site, you might even make a friend. 

Hive beetle size :1/ 8 inch would just about be perfect for a sifter for them to fall through ... if they didn't have legs. So, they can crawl across an 1/ 8 screen. That really bugged me and I didn't think it would be the best size, but everybody here insisted it was (particularly Ben Framed and Beemaster) .... and it is ... because of the bees themselves.

[Terri Yaki]

For a "complete newbie," you are super helpful. Thank you!

Well you're welcome but ... call it a Christmas miracle. 
Mostly, I'm asking stupid questions about bee stuff and being sarcastic or politically incorrect on the other topics. You're female, so don't worry. You'll be annoyed by me in no time. 
I mentioned that I'm a newbie so you'll take what I say with a grain of salt;  and know that when I'm right about something, it's because I learned it from others here. Everyone here is helpful, and oddly enough for an internet site, you might even make a friend. 

Hive beetle size :1/ 8 inch would just about be perfect for a sifter for them to fall through ... if they didn't have legs. So, they can crawl across an 1/ 8 screen. That really bugged me and I didn't think it would be the best size, but everybody here insisted it was (particularly Ben Framed and Beemaster) .... and it is ... because of the bees themselves.

Why is that, do they stand on top of them and drive them through the screen?

[animal]

Yes, sort of.... the bees chase and harass the beetles. The beetles will go through the screen and lose their grip and fall.
 If up in the top of the hive, the beetle will try to get into the little spaces/cracks bees can't go.... and if the hive is healthy you end up with a cornered beetle(or beetles) guarded by  bees.  Too many beetles, and the bees can't keep them all cornered.

[Terri Yaki]

That sounds like fun to watch. I wonder how well my borescope would be received by a hive. Would the light hurt their eyes? Would they just propolis it over?

[Ben Framed]

animal
Hive beetle size :1/ 8 inch would just about be perfect for a sifter for them to fall through ... if they didn't have legs. So, they can crawl across an 1/ 8 screen. That really bugged me and I didn't think it would be the best size, but everybody here insisted it was (particularly Ben Framed and Beemaster) .... and it is ... because of the bees themselves.

Thanks animal, for my part I was glad to relay that good information to you which Paus from Texas and Beemaster2 from Florida had taught me.
The first year of my beekeeping I lost a hive to the dreaded SHB and was mad a hornet about it! lol.. It was 'war' and both Jim and Pause were quick to help me with the screen bottom/oil tray artillery. I am thinking Mr Van; Van from Arkansas also supported those suggestions as well.

Lesgold has recently shared his good idea of using gutter screen in the place of Number 8 hardware cloth, as 1/8 screen is not readily available in his area of Australia. Les when you read this, tell us please sir, how is that working out for you at this point?

Thanks,

Phillip

[Ben Framed]

Why is that, do they stand on top of them and drive them through the screen?

Also the oil tray seems to act as a lure to the SHB itself. We discussed this here and as Beemaster2 pointed out; It seems the more SHB which meet their doom in the oil trays, the more seem to 'follow suit'.  I have a self made 'recipe' that I have found works well. Van from Arkansas suggested the Mothers Vinegar within that 'mixture' might also contribute to success in more ways than one.

Phillip

https://beemaster.com/forum/index.php?topic=56595.msg519068#msg519068

[Dora]

Why is that, do they stand on top of them and drive them through the screen?

Also the oil tray seems to act as a lure to the SHB itself. We discussed this here and as Beemaster2 pointed out; It seems the more SHB which meet their doom in the oil trays, the more seem to 'follow suit'.  I have a self made 'recipe' that I have found works well. Van from Arkansas suggested the Mothers Vinegar within that 'mixture' might also contribute to success in more ways than one.

Phillip

https://beemaster.com/forum/index.php?topic=56595.msg519068#msg519068

This is all fascinating and helpful!

So what kind of oil do you use (with the addition of vinegar) that lures the beetles?

Another question: Here in Texas, I would use the bottom screen partially to help with ventilation /air conditioning in summer. I'm afraid that the oil tray setup would interfere with that. But then I hear that SHB is more of a problem here than varroa - probably because pretty much all the bees sold here are bred to be VSH.

Any comments?

[Ben Framed]

"Dora"

So what kind of oil do you use (with the addition of vinegar) that lures the beetles?

The last paragraph in the following link will explain it. 


https://beemaster.com/forum/index.php?topic=56572.msg519062#msg519062

[Ben Framed]

That sounds like fun to watch. I wonder how well my borescope would be received by a hive. Would the light hurt their eyes? Would they just propolis it over?

I don't know Terri. I do not have one of those but Van from Arkansas relayed this a few years ago...

Mr. Ben, I am the fella with the fiber optic cable camera connected to my iPhone.  Just a man toy, a gadget, I would not recommend as they are kinda pricey.  Only works in winter on clustered cold bees.  On warm days, the bees swarm and cover the camera lens, so can?t see a thing.  Kind of cool though to view a cluster without opening a hive in winter and verify no mice.  But I emphasized, it?s just a man toy, not at all necessary.

[BeeMaster2]

Dora,
Quote
Another question: Here in Texas, I would use the bottom screen partially to help with ventilation /air conditioning in summer.

Bees don?t need open areas above or below the hive for ventilation. I made screen top boards for my hives years ago and discovered that the hives that had the STBs beard but the hives that had insulation boards covering the screens completely did not beard. This is because they can circulate the air in the hive better with just a small opening than with an open top. The open bottom is not as much of a problem as the open top.
Don?t worry about ventilation the normal entrance is more than they need. As a matter of fact I keep all of my entrances reduced all year long.
I rarely have bearding. Usually only when I did a full inspection and messed up everything in the hive on a hot day.
Jim Altmiller

[Terri Yaki]

If the bees like it cooler than it is outside, how do they cool it? Just ventilating it will not reduce temperatures.

[The15thMember]

Bees will make their own air conditioner.  They will take water, paint it on the comb, and then fan it with their wings to make it evaporate.  As Jim said, too much ventilation actually interferes with this, just like having your windows open with the A/C on is counterproductive. 

[Terri Yaki]

Bees will make their own air conditioner.  They will take water, paint it on the comb, and then fan it with their wings to make it evaporate.  As Jim said, too much ventilation actually interferes with this, just like having your windows open with the A/C on is counterproductive.

Thanks, that is the first I've heard that. Little buggers are pretty smart, aren't they?

[Dora]

"Dora"

So what kind of oil do you use (with the addition of vinegar) that lures the beetles?

The last paragraph in the following link will explain it. 


https://beemaster.com/forum/index.php?topic=56572.msg519062#msg519062

Thanks for the link Ben!

[Dora]

Bees don?t need open areas above or below the hive for ventilation. I made screen top boards for my hives years ago and discovered that the hives that had the STBs beard but the hives that had insulation boards covering the screens completely did not beard. This is because they can circulate the air in the hive better with just a small opening than with an open top. The open bottom is not as much of a problem as the open top.
Don?t worry about ventilation the normal entrance is more than they need. As a matter of fact I keep all of my entrances reduced all year long.
I rarely have bearding. Usually only when I did a full inspection and messed up everything in the hive on a hot day.
Jim Altmiller

Thanks much, Jim! It looks like maybe I should put oil pans under SBB and keep the bottom of the hive as tight as possible.

I see you're in Florida, so probably it gets as hot as it gets here. Before this year, our temps went over 100F only a few days a summer. But this last summer we had months on end with the ambient high temps consistently over 100F! I understand bees like the temps around 90F, and in full sun, where hives are supposed to be to combat SHB the sun would beat down on the hives with radiant temperatures much above the ambient 105F in the shade. (It sure *feels* a lot hotter in direct sun!) So that worried me a bit. We just painted our hives with a very pale green that looks completely white in the sun. So that should prevent them from heating up too much .. I hope!

What temperatures do you get in your part of Florida?

[Ben Framed]

"Dora"

So what kind of oil do you use (with the addition of vinegar) that lures the beetles?

The last paragraph in the following link will explain it. 


https://beemaster.com/forum/index.php?topic=56572.msg519062#msg519062

Thanks for the link Ben!

Your very welcome Dora. I have some more 'good stuff' for you to come from other discussions we have had here at Beemaster. In my opinion Beemaster Forums is a treasure trove of beekeeping information!

Phillip

[Ben Framed]

"Dora"
I'm aiming for treatment free, chemical-free bees. Michael Bush gave me hope that this is possible, and I see that many of the bees offered now are supposedly VSH strains, but it's a little confusing when the instructions include how to treat for varroa 3 times a year!

Dora, We have had several interesting discussions about this matter since I have been a member here. "ParksMtnApiary" started one of those good topics "Becoming Treatment Free", (with unforeseen twist and turns to follow), a few years ago. (To his credit, Parks is good about starting interesting subjects)

https://beemaster.com/forum/index.php?topic=53117.msg478139#msg478139

[Dora]

Thanks for that heads-up re "Becoming Treatment Free"

Now I'm wishing for a tagging feature to mark topics. <sigh>