8 frame vs 10 frame

[Acebird]

8 frame boxes will always be lighter than 10 frame boxes.  That is the choice.

[NigelP]

Cheapest space fillers I use are polystyrene blocks cut to size and wrapped in aluminium tape to prevent bees "chewing them". Incorporate a single piece of wooden frame top bar so they sit on the lip of the hives like a normal frame and jobs done. One of these blocks changes a 6 frame nuc into a 4 frame nuc and they can be removed as colony size increases. Not used them over a full year but no major damage to date.
Dead simple to make.

[yes2matt]

I'd go with pink  Ownes-Corner "Foamular One"  lining each side AND cut it 1/8" short on all sides and skin it with Luan wood sheeting. 3 pcs Luan: top, side, bottom.  Edges and back meet the hive body.  Use Titebond or Loctite Powertgrab to glue the foam on and adhere the Luan. 

Luan is lightweight & inexpensive compared to pine or plywood.  Set the table saw fence and let 'er rip.  Chop to length.
 
Because otherwise...like Doug494 said... housekeeping problems with SHB & ants, wax moths, german roaches. 

The bees will propolize the Luan-faced corners, top, and bottom of the side "shim." 

Luan is pretty good with moisture, but the experiment would show HOW good it is when covered with proposlis/wax.

I do not have SHB here to adapt to, yet. The season is so short that ants and moths only become a mild issue when the hive numbers do not have enough girth to properly patrol the space.

The luan could work. It should be lightweight and probably hold up for awhile. The idea of gluing 3 to 4 cut pieces onto foam for ### sheets would be too time consuming though. What may be quickest would be some sort of bee chew proof but bee friendly coating that that foam could be dipped in and left outside in a stack to dry.  Or even better, some sort of vacuum bagging machine big enough to handle the foam insert size and thickness. Rip out the foam pieces on the table saw, then suck / shrink and seal closed a plastic over it with some sort of bagging machine.

Just use the luan; you don't need insulation for a follower board inside the main box. Or I would use cheap school glue to make two-ply sheets of cardboard. With the corrugations running perpendicular to each other. That would cut with a saw, a utility knife, or even stout scissors,  and I don't think the bees would chew it.

Or corrugated plastic political signs but the ears will be flimsy unless you make them two-ply with rubber cement.

If bees have access to the pink "foamular" or the green equivalent they will haul it out the front; it will sound like rice crispies when you stand by the hive from the chewing. I tried to make some five frame boxes from the aluminum faced stuff and the bees basically tore their house down from the inside.

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[Acebird]

I tried to make some five frame boxes from the aluminum faced stuff and the bees basically tore their house down from the inside.

How did they get through the foil?

[yes2matt]

I tried to make some five frame boxes from the aluminum faced stuff and the bees basically tore their house down from the inside.

How did they get through the foil?

Everywhere there was a cut and exposed foam. They would go mining and remove all of it.

I use foamular for solid outer covers in the style of migratory covers (no inner cover)  they excavate all manner of cavities and entrances.  Requires window screen to protect the foam, which adds a step and materials.

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[Acebird]

If the foil got compromised then it should have been repaired with foil tape.  I use to use foam insulation on top of my covers in the winter and early spring.  They couldn't get at the foam from the inside but they had full access from outside the hive.  Never touched a one.

[Bob Wilson]

I also am curious about how the experiment turned out.

[yes2matt]

I tried to make some five frame boxes from the aluminum faced stuff and the bees basically tore their house down from the inside.

How did they get through the foil?

Everywhere there was a cut and exposed foam. They would go mining and remove all of it.

I use foamular for solid outer covers in the style of migratory covers (no inner cover)  they excavate all manner of cavities and entrances.  Requires window screen to protect the foam, which adds a step and materials.

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I made a picture, the foamular outer cover with four upper entrances, one of which was used as an external beetle jail.

This was one hell of a colony of bees, I've never had anything like them for building up and filling boxes and chasing you out of the yard if you bumped the box.

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[Acebird]

   Where is the foil?  Or any form of protection?

[Bill Murray]

Is that spray-foam? and the foil where is it?

[Ben Framed]

I also am curious about how the experiment turned out.

X 2

[Acebird]

Is that spray-foam? and the foil where is it?

Looks like board insulation to me.

[Oldbeavo]

The only flaw in the modification of 10 frames to 8 is that what ever you use will create a bias.
65mm polystyrene will take the place of 2 frames, the bees only chew it when they run out of room. This or any other solid frame replacement will tend to insulate the side of the 10 frame box, better for the 8 frame bees.
If you insert a 2 frame feeder you will have the opposite effect by providing space the will be needed to be kept warm.
HP, from what i understand of your system of stacking supers, for the 8 frame system the stack will be higher.
The weight is why we are an 8 frame system, and at over 70 yo the lifting of an 8 frame super full of honey 4 high is becoming a struggle. We are using our Ezy-loader crane more often to harvest full supers.

Having spent some of my life in agricultural research i am insure that if 100 hives will give you a conclusive result. The variation in bees would be a variable, that you may have to requeen the 100 8 frames and 100 10 frame comparisons with queens that are split equally between the groups.
I am unsure if the work required in modification and measuring honey yields will give you meaningful result.

Another way of looking at the trial is to buy the required 8 frame hives and boxes, put your bees into them, run the trial and if the 8 frames are better then you have a head start on converting, or if the trail is in the favour of the 10 frames, then sell the 8 frame set ups with bees, hopefully at a profit.
Easy to say HP as it is not my money.

[TheHoneyPump]

For those looking for followup info.
I tried a few with cut foam inserts wrapped in tech tape to protect the foam. The spacers worked well. What did not work well is that loss of 20% of volume per box. Very quickly became an issue of over packed hives and swarming. Experiment done, 8F does not work and is unmanageable here. Completely abandoned the idea. Sticking with 10F standard.

[Acebird]

What did not work well is that loss of 20% of volume per box. Very quickly became an issue of over packed hives and swarming. Experiment done, 8F does not work and is unmanageable here.

When you did this experiment did you add boxes so the number of frames were the same?  A narrower hive is a taller hive.

[Ben Framed]

For those looking for followup info.
I tried a few with cut foam inserts wrapped in tech tape to protect the foam. The spacers worked well. What did not work well is that loss of 20% of volume per box. Very quickly became an issue of over packed hives and swarming. Experiment done, 8F does not work and is unmanageable here. Completely abandoned the idea. Sticking with 10F standard.

Thanks HoneyPump for sharing the idea of your experiment, conducting the experiment, and thank you for sharing the results. Appreciate you as always.

Phillip

[BeeMaster2]

For those looking for followup info.
I tried a few with cut foam inserts wrapped in tech tape to protect the foam. The spacers worked well. What did not work well is that loss of 20% of volume per box. Very quickly became an issue of over packed hives and swarming. Experiment done, 8F does not work and is unmanageable here. Completely abandoned the idea. Sticking with 10F standard.

THP,
Were the hives that had 10 frames bursting at the seams?  If not, the extra insulation may have made a difference.
Jim Altmiller

[Bill Murray]

I have a handfull of 8 frames. I tried them and had te same problem, Management they were to needy, and time consuming. If you didnt put the time in they were hanging in the trees. I use them now to hive boxes that are struggling till i requeen them. once they are back on track go back to 10 frame.

[Michael Bush]

It may be locale, but in Nebraska I really prefer 8 frame, and not just for weight, though that is nice, but for wintering.  The bees often don't use the outside frames and in the winter they often don't eat the outside frames.