Dying young bees in front of hive

[choop26]

This is my first season and one of my hives is very robust compared to the other--much more bees, just placed second honey super, etc. Queen is healthy, no signs of serious mite infestation, bees foraging normally all looks well--except yesterday I noticed very young bees being hauled out of the hive and left on the ground to die in front of the hive. The numbers are significant but not massive. Today there are a couple hundred dead bees in front of the hive, all young. I would say they were carrying them out at a rate of approx. 1-2 per minute. Theories I have heard is a) hive is so robust the bees are performing population control b) mites--so I am going to treat them today c) insecticide, but why only young bees and otherwise normal behavior? d) lack of water, although massive lake is about 300 yards away or less. I'm clueless and being new it's heartbreaking to watch. I am very grateful for any help you folks can suggest.

[Michael Bush]

Define "no signs of serious mite infestation".  Did you do a sugar shake?  A 24 hour drop count?

[choop26]

Since this began I put in sticky board and see only small bits of wax debris and not much of that. I don't see anything on the dying young bees. All that said, this is my first year so am not sure I am doing all I can to rule mites out. I have mite strips coming from Brushy Mtn. today and intend to go ahead and treat them. Thanks for your reply.

[choop26]

A more general question is whether it is typical to see young ones being hauled out in significant numbers and what are the leading causes.

[GSF]

It could be some hygienic behavior, but the question remains - why? Insecticide? Lack of stores? ect

[choop26]

Here are some images from a clean 24 hour sticky test. Had an old beekeeper look at it and he is stumped, said it looks like lots of cappings and maybe the prolific black specs are bee parts? He says he sees no mites at all. They continue to clean out young ones as reported above. I am stumped...

hope these images come through.

[choop26]

second image, the first is a close-up of one square

[choop26]

He did say that is a lot of cappings...

[choop26]

Regarding your reply Michael. Both local beekeepers are convinced it is not mites. They are curious what you think are the possibilities if hypothetically they are not mites. I am taking the sticky board to the beekeeper meeting Tuesday and I am sure they would be anxious to hear your opinion as well. Unfortunately file size makes it hard to make out the black specs, but they almost look like either bee parts or some type of very small maybe winged bug...but cannot be sure. They say this is a lot of cappings. Also, the adjacent hive shows no similar sticky board evidence nor hygenic behavior--hauling out dying young bees.

[choop26]

I should mention these beekeepers are not saying I don't have mites, in fact I likely do. They just don't think this problem I am having is related to mites. But I am sugar shaking in the AM and I have my formic acid strips ready...

[Van, Arkansas, USA]

Hello Choop.  Thanks for the pics.  What you are calling wax capping is unusual.  They are constiently tear dropped shaped and yellow.  Wax normal capping are irregular in shape, not uniform.  The capping in pic are yellow, I have seen yellow wax stained by pollen but the pic demostrste constant color and shape.  The black specs could bee dropping by the bees, mind you I said could be.  If so the color indicates a disruption of your the microflora, the good bacteria in the bee gut.  Also bee dropping in the hive would be unusual.

So, tear dropped yellow wax(???or what ever it is) and black specks that appear uniform.  Without a good microscope for a closer view I cannot ascertain any more info.

Suggestion:  accumulate the yellow tear drops, wax capping as you call it and see if it is waterproof.  Wax is waterproof.  Invert a young bee (not a drone) with a gloved hand and check contents.  Should be orange for a healthy bee.  Finally, open a closed drone cell and look for red mites that will quickly scamper away from the light after you open the cap.
Best of luck to your bees.

[choop26]

Thanks so much. Yeah the older beekeeper said he wasn't sure what either substance was. On closer look those black specks (which are less than half the size of varroa) appear to have a pair of antenna but I see no other appendages. The two substances do appear uniform, the yellow like little bananas and the black specs like some sort of very tiny insect. I will do as you advise, but should add the few I mercy killed squirted dark yellow matter...not quite orange but close. How in the world can I fine tune this if it isn't mites. My luck that my first hive is both extremely vigorous and afflicted with something unknown at the same time. Am grateful for your help.

[choop26]

Here is an even closer view. Note what appears to be a pair of antenna on the black specks which are less than half the size of varroa and more cylindrical shaped. Also note the uniformity of the yellow specks which may not be cappings after all. Gonna sugar shake and test those yellow specks to see if they are indeed wax. Thanks to those who take the time to help me out.

[choop26]

My wife wonders if these could be tiny flies and maggots.

[Van, Arkansas, USA]

I see the antennae you mention.  I know this may sound strange, but are those yellow eggs for the dark things?  Look at the pics closely some of the dark objects appear to ascend from the egg/pouch (proposed wax).  I'm am guessing here and way out on a limb at best.

[choop26]

Yes I wonder the same thing. If so, what the heck are they? Have you ever seen such a thing?

[cpekarek]

They look like bee wings that aren't fully developed.

[tjc1]

I seem to recall a post/video somewhere about a particular plant that had a part that would attach itself to visiting bees. Does that ring a bell with anyone? My recollection was that it was damaging to the bees, who could not get them off easily. Those tear-drop shaped bits don't look like anything I've ever seen in a hive or on a bottom board - and you have tons of them!

[choop26]

I just received this message from Professor John Skinner at U. Tennessee:

"This is interesting. It's milkweed pollinia. The black object is called an elator that connects 2 yellow bags that have milkweed pollen inside. It looks like saddlebags. Milkweed is a good nectar source but pollination is different. Often when they are trying to get nectar, they get pollinia on the head or feet because the elator is sticky. 

It looks like they are foraging heavy with this large number of pollinia."

Wow, and there are tons of milkweed here. Still not sure why they hauled all these young bees, but will post his opinion on that if he offers one. I am so grateful to all for the help.

[mtnb]

Wow! This thread is so interesting! Thank you for sharing. Milkweed. Is that not a common forage since nobody here has seen or noticed it before? Hope you find out about the babies.