Beginning Queen Rearing Questions

[jalentour]

One of the major retailers has a pretty good sale going and I was considering purchasing some of their queen rearing equipment.
This will be my first year raising my own queens.  Plan to attend the Bee Lab at Purdue University this summer for a 4 day training session.
Obviously, I do not have any queen rearing equipment at this time. 
I wanted to ask contributors to chime in on what they thing is necessary for successful queen rearing from beginning to end, tools to mating nucs.
I don't plan to sell queens this year, just raise them for my own use, but eventually I would like to have the capability to sell queens and queen cells.
what do you like and what doesn't work well?
Thanks!

[iddee]

http://doorgarden.com/2011/11/07/simple-honey-bee-queen-rearing-for-beginners/

[Michael Bush]

Here are some graftless methods that don't require any special equipment:
http://www.bushfarms.com/beesafewgoodqueens.htm
http://www.bushfarms.com/beeshopkinsmethod.htm
http://www.bushfarms.com/beesmillermethod.htm
http://www.bushfarms.com/beeshopkins1886.htm
http://www.bushfarms.com/beesbetterqueens.htm
http://www.bushfarms.com/beesalleymethod.htm

[rookie2531]

You can do it all for zero dollars, but I did buy a bag of cell cups for 8.00 and a Chinese graft tool for 2.00. So, $10 and I have grafted over 50 Queens. You can start growing without grafting at all, as bush has links there above. I wouldn't get caught up in the commercial store pushing the nicot and other systems. Way overpriced for some small plastic parts.

[little john]

http://doorgarden.com/2011/11/07/simple-honey-bee-queen-rearing-for-beginners/

Good link, that.  The most important part of which, imo, is the creation of a Clemens Q-ve starter-finisher system.  Once you have one up and running, you can put whatever you like into it to create your Q/Cells.  At it's simplest, you could simply place a frame of BIAS in the box, and in all probability half a dozen fine Q/Cells will result.  Or you can place grafts, punched cells - whatever you want.  A dozen to twenty cells is about right, depending on the amount of bees in the box.

In the text, the author writes: "This is not a system that is usually used by bulk queen producers."
I know what he means by that, but actually it is exactly the same system as used by Laidlaw (one of the BIG names in queen-rearing) - what Clemens has done, very cleverly, is to scale-down Laidlaw's system to nuc-sized proportions, to be more in keeping with the requirements of the hobbyist - to produce a dozen cells at a time, rather than a hundred.  But - having used the system now for a season, if I ever wanted to produce larger numbers, I'd run several Clemens systems side by side, rather than having one large starter-finisher, or separate starters and finishers.  It really is that good.
LJ

[sc-bee]

http://doorgarden.com/2011/11/07/simple-honey-bee-queen-rearing-for-beginners/

I'd run several Clemens systems side by side, rather than having one large starter-finisher, or separate starters and finishers.  It really is that good.
LJ

I printed this off a couple years ago and even got in touch with Clemens and Leferney. Well ain't got off my duff yet but LJ you are twisting my arm hard  I was thinking of using it with either cell punches or notching..

[minz]

http://doorgarden.com/2011/11/07/simple-honey-bee-queen-rearing-for-beginners/

I like it! I usually just demaree up my hives for swarm control and use the swarm cells after 10 days to my mating nucs. This year I am going to try to graft, no really, I am going to get off my rear and make 10 good cells, hope for 8.
I have a hive that is a boomer every year but it is so mean it stings the workers on the road, I am going to make that killer a cell builder first and break it into mating nucs second.
That should allow me to do honey in the other overwintered hives-going for bees and honey!

[jalentour]

MB,
Thanks for your reply.
Which method do you use?
What do you recommend for a sideliner?

Iddee,
Thanks!
I know your more than a sideliner.  Is this what you are doing?

[iddee]

With a few adjustments, Yes, it's what we do.

[Michael Bush]

>Which method do you use?

I graft.  Otherwise, I suppose it most closely resembles Jay Smith's Queen Rearing Simplified method.
http://www.bushfarms.com/beesqueenrearingsimplified.htm

>What do you recommend for a sideliner?

That depends on whether your intent is to raise a few queens for your own use or to raise a lot of queens to sell.
http://www.bushfarms.com/beesafewgoodqueens.htm
http://www.bushfarms.com/beesqueenrearing.htm

[jalentour]

A few then a lot.

[Michael Bush]

If you intend to eventually raise a lot of queens, grafting is a skill worth learning.  Once you know how to graft it's much simpler than any other method.  You can go out and fill a swarm box, find some of the right aged larvae, graft it and put it in the swarm box, all today.  Other methods usually require several trips and some require finding the queen...

[azzkell]

Hi all. Is there a way to raise a queen from a good natured hive for replacing a queen in a aggressive hive without removal of the good queen?
Do I move egg and larvae from good to angry hive, remove the queen 24hrs beforehand? Graft a couple of queen cells perhaps to ensure good brood is used?
Thanks for any help.

[little john]

Hi all. Is there a way to raise a queen from a good natured hive for replacing a queen in a aggressive hive without removal of the good queen?

You only really need to graft and use Starter-Finishers and so forth when you want to create a dozen or more queen cells.  If you only want to re-queen one colony, then you only need one or perhaps two queen cells, and life can get a whole lot simpler.

One way would be to place a Queen eXcluder over the target hive brood box, with an empty box over that.  Into that box place a frame of BIAS (Brood In All Stages) from the 'good' donor hive from which you've shaken-off the bees and checked that it contains some young larvae of the size normally used for grafting.  If I were doing this, if possible I'd also 'borrow' (they'll be returned in a few days) 2 or 3 more frames (without bees) containing brood, stores, and pollen.

Place these frames into the box above the QX above the target hive, dummy-down any remaining space, and then leave alone for a couple of hours so that bees can ascend up through the QX to cover those combs. Then - slide a sheet of thick plastic or something similar under the QX, to create a state of queenlessness within the upper box.  After 24-36 hrs, remove the plastic sheet and walk away.
 
Check the brood frame in 2 or 3 day's time to confirm that queen cells have been started, then wait until a day or two before their emergence.
Then break-down the target hive (being VERY gentle with the frame carrying the Queen Cells), and locate and cull the unwanted queen.  Re-build the hive, inserting the 'Queen Cell frame' into the brood nest.  There shouldn't be any risk of rejection, for as far as the bees are concerned that's one of their own combs, and therefore one of their own queen cells. Then return the 'borrowed' frames (less bees, of course) to the donor hive.
LJ

[azzkell]

Thanks LJ.
I may want to re queen several so that would mean the starter finisher method. I have read about it on Dave Cushman's web site but dont fully understand it yet, will have to read again. I do understand the separation technique you mentioned, I assume that having frames of honey and pollen allows them to survive in a sealed environment for the 2-3 days. Would it be beneficial  to have small ventilation holes in the plastic covering? Allow air flow and hive scent to cover frames above.
Have never done queen manipulations so just trying to get my head around it.
Thanks for your input.

[little john]

I had assumed it was just the one hive - ok - if there are more, then you could either repeat that process hive-by-hive, or go down (say) the Clemens Queenless Starter-Finisher route - there are links earlier in the thread.

Re: the plastic. No holes - it HAS to be a complete shut-off between the two boxes - AND - it only stays in place for 24 hrs (although I sometimes cheat and extend that to 36, just to make sure).  If it's a hot day, then create ventilation anywhere else, but NOT through the plastic. Hive scent in the top box is exactly what you don't want !

BUT - the use of a plastic sheet was just a Q.D. (Quick'n'Dirty) freebie substitute for a Cloake Board.  If you're going to re-queen several hives, then I'd recommend the making-up of a Cloake Board to use with the method I suggested, rather than using a plastic sheet (which can be a bit 'fiddly').  The Cloake Board, with it's purpose-made slide, is not only easier to use than a floppy piece of plastic sheet, but it also provides another entrance which solves your very reasonable concerns about ventilation.

Or - the Cloake Board can be used as Harry Cloake intended it to be used, to create Queen Cells from grafts, by reversing the entrances etc, to generate temporary congestion ...  It's a very clever and flexible piece of kit.

If you plan on doing more Queen-Rearing, then I'd recommend at least trying the Clemens (mini-Laidlaw) System, and the making-up of a Cloake Board.  There are dozens of other bits of kit a beekeeper can play with, but you can do a helluva lot with just those two.
Best of Luck
LJ

[azzkell]

Thanks for a such a detailed reply, makes perfect sense. Think I will give the cloake board a go, have tried doing things on the cheap many times for various things and it usually just brings frustration and dissapointment.
Thanks once again.
Aaron.

[BeeMe]

Here is something that I have been contemplating for some time to use next year on about six hives.  I want to make equal splits toward the end of the spring nectar flow without the long wait incurred from walk-away splits and without searching for queens in a highly populated hives.
Take one frame of young brood move it up into the honey supers with one or more full super(s) between the frame and the brood box.  Notch the cells of appropriate age brood.  Once queen cells have been capped, split the hives and give each hive one or two queen cells and walk away.
Will it work?
Will a queen excluder be needed or will the honey super serve as the excluder?
Will one super be enough distance from the queen or will more than one super be needed if no excluder is used?
Will more than one frame of brood need to be moved up?
My thinking is this will
?   maintain the genetic diversity by not using only one or two queens to provide all the new queens. 
?   give both halves of the split the opportunity to requeen. 
?   require minimum time of queenlessness. 
?   keep the hive strong through most of the nectar flow giving maximum honey reserves/harvest. 
?   provide for potentially strong hives going into winter preparation.
Waiting for the collective wisdom to begin.