Swarm and space (and temperament changes)

[Occam]

So I had a miscalculation that has me slightly concerned. Earlier this year was debating making frames, never got around to it and managed to forget to order frames. I thought I had 10 but remembered too late they were in my trap out box which leaves me with a bit of a predicament. I had 5 frames in the nuc box I caught the swarm in on Saturday but with 5 lbs of bees they need more. I have some arriving Wednesday and have been hoping to make it to Thursday morning to add more frames but I got home today and there are several thousand bees bearding on the hive. I do have medium frames I could throw in to relieve pressure and congestion but not sure that's a great idea. Guess the worst that would happen is they build them out and some combbon the bottoms as well? Last thing I want is to make them abscond from too little room

[The15thMember]

I actually use shallows in my mediums sometimes, and I don't have problems with the bees drawing weird on them.  When I first started beekeeping, I was planning on using mediums for brood and shallows for honey, but I found the two sizes of boxes cumbersome to manage, so I turned all my shallows into moisture quilts and was left with about 40 shallow frames.  I decided to just try using them anyway and see what happened.  Sometimes the bees draw past the bottom bar and make them medium sized, and sometimes they just stop at the bottom bar.  I try not to put 2 shallows next to each other so they don't have a big empty space in which to make a mess.  Like I said, I've never had a problem, and I've been doing it for about 4 years now.   

[Occam]

Yeah, I think I'll put medium frames in and when the deeps come I'll swap them out.  Better than risking them leaving

[BeeMaster2]

Occam,
I also use different sized frames in my hives. Usually mediums in deep boxes or western boxes. As Reagan said separately them with the correct sizes. They usually draw out the short frames to match the long ones.
Jim Altmiller

[Occam]

Occam,
I also use different sized frames in my hives. Usually mediums in deep boxes or western boxes. As Reagan said separately them with the correct sizes. They usually draw out the short frames to match the long ones.
Jim Altmiller

I've never read of them doing this but it makes sense. Guess my only real concern had been side or bottom attachments to the body but it's nice to know others have done it successfully.

[Occam]

After discussion yesterday I decided to throw few medium frames in this morning. However when I went to the hive the bees were acting a little unusual, at least not how I thought they'd act. When I opened the box they didn't seem amiss at first glance. It was 645 so it was a little early but plenty of light and my other hive was busy flying in and out.

I noticed a handful of dead bees around the ground of the new swarm when I got home yesterday and when I opened it this morning there were dozens of dead bees laying in the bottom. When I moved the frames to add mediums between the deeps I found only one frame with comb being built and when I watched the bees they were acting listless, didn't seem to be doing anything.

I was concerned that perhaps something had happened to the queen during relocation and they're queenless so I decided to take a frame of eggs from my other hive. This brings me to my next new experience. Up to now this hive has always been docile and chill. I often wear gloves but never have I worn a suit with them. When I popped the lid I went to give a little smoke and immediately started getting bumped, something seemed different about them and I decided to put a suit on just in case. I also couldn't find my normal thinner gloves I wear so I put on a pair of thicker insulated work gloves, the type worth rubber fingers and palms often used in gardening and construction. Holy crap I'm glad I did.

I don't know if it was the time of day, adding the swarm to the box 10 feet away, or something else but that hive was NOT happy I was there. I was in a cloud of bees writing seconds of popping the inner cover with bees hitting my hands every time I moved, hadn't even pulled frames yet. They were stinging the gloves left and right (literally and figuratively). Plenty of capped brood and larva in there too, plenty of honey.

I guess I was taken aback by their response but I ended up probably making the wrong decision. I was already running late for work and wasn't finding eggs quickly so I ended up closing both hives but hadn't found eggs to put in the swarm box. Hopefully there's a queen in there but only time will tell now. And hopefully it was just a weird incident with the hive that was so aggressive with me and they haven't turned mean.

This does make me wonder now though. Two weeks ago I was sitting observing the hive and have never been bothered before but one suddenly flew over and stung me next to my eyebrow. Makes me wonder if temperament was starting to change then. That was about a week after finding and marking my queen and the hive had been completely docile through the process of inspection and marking.

[iddee]

If the temp. was 55 or lower, they were in partial cluster. They will always be mean then.
Again, you are putting the carriage before the horse. No need to go in that hive until you find a need. Check the swarm first, then move brood only if needed.

[Occam]

It was 70s this morning

[iddee]

Official temp. was in the 70's. What was it inside the box outside the cluster? Had the temp. been lower overnite?

[Occam]

Official temp. was in the 70's. What was it inside the box outside the cluster? Had the temp. been lower overnite?

I don't have any thermometers the hive,  I didn't have my infrared laser with me or my flir operational. The lowest it got overnight was 65 according to what I've been able to find for last night.  The temperature may very well have been it.

That said the swarm bees were bearded on the outside this morning if that had any bearing

[iddee]

You are probably tight. Being that early, I just thought it might be the trouble.

[Occam]

You are probably tight. Being that early, I just thought it might be the trouble.

No I appreciate it, I hadn't even thought about temperature as a possible cause. This is why I love this place, there's always someone with some knowledge or experience you don't have