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Offline guitarstitch

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Beesting reactions
« on: April 03, 2020, 03:16:57 pm »
Not physiological reactions, but behavioral reactions.

I got stung again today...  first time since Beefest.  All I did was walk out to the apiary to set up my camcorder (going to try recording my hive tending sessions mostly for my records).  As soon as I got near the hives, I got bumped twice.  I didn't react to the bumps and continued calmly setting up my tripod...  then it happened.  POW!  Beesting!  Apply directly the forehead!  I started a brisk walk away, but got chased, so I sprinted a few yards.

Initially, I felt my reaction was cool and collected, but then a panic of sorts set in.  I want to change that.  I know logically that by the time I have felt the sting, there is nothing I can do.  The pain isn't even that bad!  The days following are the worst for me!  I have often said that panic accomplishes nothing in any situation.  I've dealt with angry mobs, dangerous armed drunks, a really bad vehicle wreck, and several other situations where panic in the moment is normal and I was able to maintain focus.  Why can't I keep my calm when the bees lose theirs?

I've been working up a level of comfort with the bees, including not wearing gloves for inspections and not wearing a veil when just walking through the apiary to change feeder bottles.  Since Beefest, I have really been trying to pay attention to the behavior of the bees and recognizing when they're getting anxious by sound and motion.  We had several really good examples of a hive suddenly getting defensive and that same hive calming back down.

Discussion time: what are the mental tricks you use to handle the inevitable situation of dealing with bees gone wild?
-Matthew Pence/Stitch

Offline Kathyp

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Re: Beesting reactions
« Reply #1 on: April 03, 2020, 03:26:39 pm »
Protective gear.   :wink:

I know a lot of people don't want to use it, but you never know when you are going to have a bad reaction even when you have been stung a lot of times.  If you get stung in the eye, it is a medical emergency. 

Once one of them stings, it can set off more of them.  There are any number of things that can make them cranky.

This is one persons opinion, but I don't think it is worth the risk to not at least cover your face.  Full disclosure, I swell up like the great pumpkin when I get stung!
Someone really ought to tell them that the world of Ayn Rand?s novel was not meant to be aspirational.

Offline van from Arkansas

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Re: Beesting reactions
« Reply #2 on: April 03, 2020, 03:27:50 pm »
Mr. Guitar, I walk my apiary almost ever day.  If a hive turns reactive, I requeen.  Any hive can have a bad day, that is not what I am talking about.  A continuing issue is what I am talking about.

The bees gave you a warning, bump to the forehead, this is common before an attack.  Back off next time.

My concern is: your bees are defensive now, during the calm season, your really going to get it as the weeks go by and the bees naturally be come more defensive.  Requeening takes a couple of months.

Retreating from defensive hive is human nature, in your genes.  You acted normal.

Van

BTW, were you wearing dark colored, black clothing as in your pic?  Bees instinct is to interpret an approaching bear and will defend the hive.
I have been around bees a long time, since birth.  I am a hobbyist so my answers often reflect this fact.  I concentrate on genetics, raise my own queens by wet graft, nicot, with natural or II breeding.  I do not sell queens, I will give queens  for free but no shipping.

Offline guitarstitch

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Re: Beesting reactions
« Reply #3 on: April 03, 2020, 03:47:55 pm »
kathyp: I do wear facial protection when I expect to possibly agitate the bees.  Not when I'm just standing there.  lol.  I particularly dislike facial stings as I end up looking like Disney's rendition of the Hunchback of Notre Dame.

Van: This isn't a common behavior for my hives.  Even in this case, it was only a couple of bees.  I am not even sure from which of my hives these messengers came. 
I can think of a few things that may contribute to a slightly more upset nature:
-night pestering by local critters
-one hive likely has a virgin queen and is due to be inspected next weekend
-the bloom in our area suddenly stopped due to a lack of rain (fake dearth)

The good news is after I shook off the sting, I continued with my inspection of a suspect troubled hive without any further incidents.

I pretty typically wear predominantly black clothing most of the time, when I can, and was in fact wearing black today.  There may be something to that.  Once I got in the hive, I was wearing my (almost white) bee jacket and veil.

-Matt
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Offline Crtolbert

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Re: Beesting reactions
« Reply #4 on: April 03, 2020, 04:12:54 pm »
I've read that black clothing causes us to resemble bears to the bees and they aren't fond of bears. Maybe this triggered a defensive response?

Offline FloridaGardener

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Re: Beesting reactions
« Reply #5 on: April 03, 2020, 05:17:00 pm »
x2 on one sting leads to another.  They smell it.  I can smoke myself to help, but they still smell it.  I walk off asap.
x2 wear light jeans not dark jeans.
x2 on protective gear.

Also - If I have opened the hive, I can almost smell them if they are getting hot.  Certainly I hear it.

Best sting cure I've found: dab of pure lavender oil every hour for 4-5 hrs, your swelling & itch goes away ...even when the bee manages to pump the venom in like a mosquito lump.   With lavender and a benedryl (or generic sleep aid called diphenhydramine), it should be gone by the next day. Plus you'll smell pretty.

Offline Oldbeavo

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Re: Beesting reactions
« Reply #6 on: April 03, 2020, 07:33:39 pm »
Bees see in the infra red spectrum and so you think you are wearing black, may be the bees don't see the same.
If you google "vision spectrum of bees" you will get a surprise as to what colors they see.
Also textures of clothing have an effect, they seem to hate dark polarfleece jumpers and also black wooly socks.

I am with Mr Van, if hive has a bad day a note " fizzy +date" is put on the lid. Two fizzy tags on the lid means a requeen. Also these hives are done last because if they fizz they can set the rest of the apiary on edge.

Offline Skeggley

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Re: Beesting reactions
« Reply #7 on: April 03, 2020, 08:02:05 pm »
My 7yo daughter got pinged between the eyes for no reason apparently couple of weeks ago, didn?t look great the next day... Turned out it actually got stuck in her hair first.
I have been stung with no warning in the past, bees flying bum first I?m sure!
I have been told by an experienced beek that the co2 we breathe is an attractant so if bumped or being harassed stand still, lower your head and hold breath, this has worked for me in fact I?ll find myself holding my breath by the hives subconsciously now!


Offline CoolBees

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Re: Beesting reactions
« Reply #8 on: April 03, 2020, 08:02:59 pm »
X3 on protective gear. Especially a veil. Our eyes can't be replaced.

There are lots of possibilities as to why they stung you. Here's another one that happens to me occasionally: when I walk thru the apiary, I often get bumped by bees flying in at high speed, on autopilot - and they slam into me. I can hear them coming. Occasionally one of these bees will sting almost on impact. Maybe it was recently harassed in the field? I dunno.

Other causes of seemingly random stings can include:
Showering with the wrong soap
Using the wrong dryer sheets (fabric softener)
Recently pulling/messing with certain weeds that bother them,
Changes in the weather
Etc

... just to add a few items to the "hive related" options that can cause short-tempered bees ...  :grin:
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Offline The15thMember

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Re: Beesting reactions
« Reply #9 on: April 03, 2020, 09:24:13 pm »
My 7yo daughter got pinged between the eyes for no reason apparently couple of weeks ago, didn?t look great the next day... Turned out it actually got stuck in her hair first.
I'd like to highlight this one.  I've never been stung by bees just flying by, as long as I don't stand in their flight path to and from the hive.  But bees get very aggravated if they get stuck in hair, and I've almost been stung a bunch of times that way.

I've been working up a level of comfort with the bees, including not wearing gloves for inspections and not wearing a veil when just walking through the apiary to change feeder bottles.  Since Beefest, I have really been trying to pay attention to the behavior of the bees and recognizing when they're getting anxious by sound and motion.  We had several really good examples of a hive suddenly getting defensive and that same hive calming back down.

There is no standard for how comfortable you should feel at a certain level of protection.  Some people are comfortable in just a veil, shorts, and a tee shirt; some people are only comfortable fully suited.  And you know what?  That's okay.  I think it's more important for you to feel like you are safe, than to be working up to some arbitrary standard.  The bees will know if you are nervous and you are also more prone to making mistakes like jostling frames and crushing bees if you are worried.  If you are calm, they will be more calm, and you'll feel safe enough to take your time and move slowly and deliberately.  It's good that you are watching the bees and learning to read them, because they will tell you when they are aggravated.     

Personally, I suit up every time I do an inspection, and I always wear nitrile gloves.  If I'm opening the hive for any reason or am going to be messing around at the entrance, I put at least a veil on, because as everyone has said, your eyesight is precious and is not to be messed with.  However I'm also perfectly comfortable sitting next to a hive and watching the bees come and go without any protection.  But that's just me, you do you.  :smile:                     
I come from under the hill, and under the hills and over the hills my paths led.  And through the air, I am she that walks unseen.

Offline guitarstitch

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Re: Beesting reactions
« Reply #10 on: April 03, 2020, 09:48:31 pm »
Thanks all.  I'm not really worried about why I got stung.  I am more musing on building up the mental fortitude to not react instinctively when it happens.

Anytime I'm actually working the hives, I have my jacket and veil on.  I don't feel particularly nervous without gloves for some reason.  Not as much as I would have expected anyway.  I do like the ability to feel what I'm doing a heck of a lot more than the leather hive clobberers.  It also reminds me to move slowly and with purpose.

This is the first time I've been pinged without a noteworthy cause where I wasn't in the flight path.  The only other time, I was running the lawn mower during a dearth.
-Matthew Pence/Stitch

Offline The15thMember

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Re: Beesting reactions
« Reply #11 on: April 04, 2020, 01:06:07 pm »
Thanks all.  I'm not really worried about why I got stung.  I am more musing on building up the mental fortitude to not react instinctively when it happens.
Okay, I have no idea if this will help you, but I'll take a stab anyway.  I constantly talk to my bees while I'm working them, and really any time I'm up at the hives.  I never really thought about why I do it before, but your question got me contemplating it.  I think that it helps to keep me calm by sort of humanizing them.  Because the fact is, they aren't just rabid, violent creatures that are looking to sting you for fun.  If you think about it from their perspective, you totally deserve it.  :happy:  I mean how would you feel, if you are really busy working in your house, and some giant thing rips off the roof and is screwing around with all the stuff you are trying to organize and take care of?  I think it's easier to not panic when you remember that they are stinging you reasonably, and not unreasonably.  (And if it is unreasonable, you should probably requeen.)  And I think that humanizing them, by talking to them, helps you to remember they are reasonable.

I don't know, but I also think that talking to them may help them too.  I feel like by talking to them, I'm making them aware that I'm not a predator, and it's sort of an association tactic by which they can identify me and what I'm here to do when I inspect, which is really just look around; I'm not here to destroy their nest (most days :wink:).  This is pure speculation on my part, but we've talked on the forum before about the fact that bees seem to be able to identify their keepers, and can recognize when someone new is working them.  I remember reading a story somewhere about a guy who took over some hives that had been owned by a Russian beekeeper, who always spoke to the bees in Russian.  The new keeper thought that the bees were more aggressive toward him because he didn't sound like their original keeper. 

Maybe that's more the sort of thing you are after?       
I come from under the hill, and under the hills and over the hills my paths led.  And through the air, I am she that walks unseen.

Offline Ben Framed

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Re: Beesting reactions
« Reply #12 on: April 04, 2020, 03:02:37 pm »
The fact is bees have stingers and sting. You're going to get stung. You will get stung. Grit your teeth , stand your ground, and take it. Suit up if you will, sometimes you WILL need to wear a vented jacket. This time of year a veil is all you need but not necessary. Most of the time, I use one for eye protection. In places where Africanized bees are located you may need a complete vented suit. You ARE going to get stung. If you can not take it you may need to find another hobby. I hope you hang in there. Putting it bluntly, no offence intended. Wishing you the very best.

Phillip Hall
« Last Edit: April 04, 2020, 05:22:50 pm by Ben Framed »
2 Chronicles 7:14
14 If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.

Offline lastfling

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Re: Beesting reactions
« Reply #13 on: April 04, 2020, 04:23:39 pm »
I was looking at a swarm trap that was showing some activity yesterday, standing off to the side when wham - back of head.  Totally unprovoked LOL.


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Offline Kathyp

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Re: Beesting reactions
« Reply #14 on: April 04, 2020, 05:01:33 pm »
Quote
Best sting cure I've found: dab of pure lavender oil every hour for 4-5 hrs, your swelling & itch goes away ..

It's been a long time since I have posted this but the best thing I have found for the itch is Vagisil.  In wandering the med isles and reading labels I found that anti-itch stuff is very expensive and you guys pay WAY to much for jock itch meds.  Vagisil is less expensive and if the store carries its own brand it's even less!   :cheesy:

Have your SO buy it if it freaks you out to get it yourself!!
Someone really ought to tell them that the world of Ayn Rand?s novel was not meant to be aspirational.

Offline van from Arkansas

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Re: Beesting reactions
« Reply #15 on: April 04, 2020, 05:05:47 pm »
Ms. Member, I talk to my bees all the time, when just walking and observations.  My bees commonly approach me, sometimes 8 at a time, in my face, while I walk the apirary, no protection.  I think the bees are looking for food.  I always tell the bees I DONT HAVE ANTYHING, no food that is while I walk.  Then the bees leave me alone after they realize I have no food for them.  Does my talking do anything to the bees, I don?t know?  I just repeat the same thing for years: walk and talk, oh yes, I listen also.  An angry bee has a particular buzz I know all to well after an accidental squish a sister bee.

I have seen bees on the entrance, notice me, and immediately do a fly by.  Starting at my feet, fly upwards towards my head, checking my entire body for scent such as syrup.  I only feed in the late summer, or Fall.  The bees only live a short while so no real way they could know me.  ??? Have more questions than answers???

Van
I have been around bees a long time, since birth.  I am a hobbyist so my answers often reflect this fact.  I concentrate on genetics, raise my own queens by wet graft, nicot, with natural or II breeding.  I do not sell queens, I will give queens  for free but no shipping.

Offline jtcmedic

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Re: Beesting reactions
« Reply #16 on: April 04, 2020, 06:27:52 pm »
I will walk out and watch my hives from a distance. Have found in late afternoon will get bumped and popped I?m guessing a older bee as forgers are back. Yes some will not wear gear. I am man enough to say I will always wear my gear, and will wear my gloves while doing inspections. Stings don?t bother me but not gonna lie I don?t like face stings a bit.
Be safe

Offline Ben Framed

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Re: Beesting reactions
« Reply #17 on: April 04, 2020, 06:46:20 pm »
I think bees do recognize us as Mr Van explained. I know that this early spring when bees were first coming out of the winter situation, they seemed more aggressive than last fall. I contribute this to being new bees. Now things are busy busy for the bee. They are back to normal now and hardly pay any attention as far as aggression goes. I suppose they have become use to me along with being busy at their work.

Phillip Hall

PS stitch, maybe you could sing to them instead of talking to them. But let me caution; By all means, do not miss a note or key! Lol
« Last Edit: April 04, 2020, 07:45:12 pm by Ben Framed »
2 Chronicles 7:14
14 If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.

Offline van from Arkansas

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Re: Beesting reactions
« Reply #18 on: April 04, 2020, 07:44:16 pm »
Medic, 2017 was the last time I received a sting doing walk by.  In February, I figured the bees were clustered so long they were not used to a large moving object such as me and I got stung just underneath the nose above the lip.

With inspections, I always wear a vented jacket, not a suite, too hot.  With a jacket on, I still get stung now and then.  Stings vary with me: from nothing to swelling with pain, I never know until it to late.  Just have to take it laughing.  If I complain about pain from a bee sting, ID will raz me, with humor I might add.

Van
I have been around bees a long time, since birth.  I am a hobbyist so my answers often reflect this fact.  I concentrate on genetics, raise my own queens by wet graft, nicot, with natural or II breeding.  I do not sell queens, I will give queens  for free but no shipping.

Offline jtcmedic

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Re: Beesting reactions
« Reply #19 on: April 04, 2020, 09:40:38 pm »
Medic, 2017 was the last time I received a sting doing walk by.  In February, I figured the bees were clustered so long they were not used to a large moving object such as me and I got stung just underneath the nose above the lip.

With inspections, I always wear a vented jacket, not a suite, too hot.  With a jacket on, I still get stung now and then.  Stings vary with me: from nothing to swelling with pain, I never know until it to late.  Just have to take it laughing.  If I complain about pain from a bee sting, ID will raz me, with humor I might add.

Van
That is true have to take it with a laugh, I too only wear a vented jacket love it in Florida. In my real life I wear a bunker coat and pants with full SCBA  in Florida summer and it is little warm.