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Author Topic: Linoleum mat on brood frames  (Read 16833 times)

Offline Alpal

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Re: Linoleum mat on brood frames
« Reply #20 on: September 08, 2014, 02:16:26 am »
Beespace is very important in the hive.  The proper beespace is 5/16 to 3/8 inch. I think 5/16 is a bit better than 3/8 myself but industry has stuck with 3/8.

So, to understand this right - beespace of 5/16ths (or 3/8ths) is the space that should be between the frame's bottom and the base of your hive (whatever it is), between the frames side and the side wall of your box, between the top of the frame and the bottom of the frame above, between the top of your frames and the lid (whatever one) etc etc. Is this correct?

I know there are practicalities of construction etc to come, but as a generality?

Cheers

Alpal

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Re: Linoleum mat on brood frames
« Reply #21 on: September 08, 2014, 05:18:42 am »
Beespace is very important in the hive.  The proper beespace is 5/16 to 3/8 inch. I think 5/16 is a bit better than 3/8 myself but industry has stuck with 3/8.

So, to understand this right - beespace of 5/16ths (or 3/8ths) is the space that should be between the frame's bottom and the base of your hive (whatever it is), between the frames side and the side wall of your box, between the top of the frame and the bottom of the frame above, between the top of your frames and the lid (whatever one) etc etc. Is this correct?

I know there are practicalities of construction etc to come, but as a generality?

Cheers

Alpal

Alpal,
That is correct with the exception of the bottom area of the hive under the bottom frames. They tend to tolerate a little more space there.
If you have an area greater than bee space, they fill it with wax, if they have less, they fill it with propolis. Usually, my observation hive, that I put empty frames in, has lots of space, 2 full frames with nothing. It also has open space in the bottom where built some wonky comb but never filled in the area around it.
Different bees do different things.
Jim
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Offline RayMarler

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Re: Linoleum mat on brood frames
« Reply #22 on: September 08, 2014, 05:46:31 am »
Thanks Jim, yes I agree, and also is not as important at the top, is why we get away with spacers under the lid in winter for doing a mountain camp feeding or other feedings. It also depends on hive strength and time of year. But for the most part, yes, beespace should be 5/16 - 3/8 inch everywhere throughout the hive. Even at the top and bottom, if the space is too great, they will eventually fill it with comb.

Online Jim134

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Re: Linoleum mat on brood frames
« Reply #23 on: September 08, 2014, 12:07:41 pm »
So, to understand this right - beespace of 5/16ths (or 3/8ths) is the space that should be between the frame's bottom and the base of your hive (whatever it is), between the frames side and the side wall of your box, between the top of the frame and the bottom of the frame above, between the top of your frames and the lid (whatever one) etc etc. Is this correct?

I know there are practicalities of construction etc to come, but as a generality?

Cheers

Alpal

Alpal.......

    Bee space is a range between 5/16" to 3/8" small than 5/16"  propolis most of the time
larger than 3/8" burr comb most the time.    


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Online Jim134

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Re: Linoleum mat on brood frames
« Reply #24 on: September 09, 2014, 12:06:19 am »
   This may help you out a lot

 http://dave-cushman.net/bee/bsp.html



        BEE HAPPY Jim 134 :)           
"Tell me and I'll forget,show me and I may  remember,involve me and I'll understand"
        Chinese Proverb

"The farmer is the only man in our economy who buys everything at retail, sells everything at wholesale, and pays the freight both ways."
 John F. Kennedy
Franklin County Beekeepers Association MA. http://www.franklinmabeekeepers.org/

Offline Alpal

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Re: Linoleum mat on brood frames
« Reply #25 on: September 09, 2014, 10:41:29 am »
Thanks all for your help. This forum is brilliant for someone like be just setting out.

Regards

Alpal

Offline Intheswamp

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Re: Linoleum mat on brood frames
« Reply #26 on: September 09, 2014, 10:43:56 am »
"migration tops, a piece of plywood, specially treated"

How is it specially treated?  I haven't seen any mention of it and want to build it as well as possible.  CA-C Pressure Treated?  I wouldn't think that is good around bees.
Tex,
I have seen the plywood but I cannot remember the name of it. It does not warp or rot, when left in the sun and rain, for years. I did several searches and I cannot find it. It looks like it is sealed and safe for hives. I thought Dadant sold it but I cannot find it in there catalog. The ones that I saw we 3/4".
Jim

Jim, AdvanTech is what you might be thinking about...our "local" (30 miles away) Lowe's carries it.  Durable and heavy stuff.  AdvanTech vs OSB - Water Resistance Comparison

Ed
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Online Jim134

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Re: Linoleum mat on brood frames
« Reply #27 on: September 09, 2014, 03:52:39 pm »
         A small commercial beekeeper I know in southern Vermont uses plywood from concrete forms wears like iron some of his equipment is over 15 years old and still looks great no painting involved thank you dear Lord.



                    BEE HAPPY Jim 134 :)
"Tell me and I'll forget,show me and I may  remember,involve me and I'll understand"
        Chinese Proverb

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 John F. Kennedy
Franklin County Beekeepers Association MA. http://www.franklinmabeekeepers.org/

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Re: Linoleum mat on brood frames
« Reply #28 on: September 10, 2014, 01:21:39 pm »
"migration tops, a piece of plywood, specially treated"

How is it specially treated?  I haven't seen any mention of it and want to build it as well as possible.  CA-C Pressure Treated?  I wouldn't think that is good around bees.
Tex,
I have seen the plywood but I cannot remember the name of it. It does not warp or rot, when left in the sun and rain, for years. I did several searches and I cannot find it. It looks like it is sealed and safe for hives. I thought Dadant sold it but I cannot find it in there catalog. The ones that I saw we 3/4".
Jim

Jim, AdvanTech is what you might be thinking about...our "local" (30 miles away) Lowe's carries it.  Durable and heavy stuff.  AdvanTech vs OSB - Water Resistance Comparison

Ed

Ed,
This might be it although I do not remember it looking like OSB. But then again I did not get a good look at it. It looked very smooth like a highly compressed plywood.
Jim
Democracy is 2 wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote.
Ben Franklin

Offline Richard M

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Re: Linoleum mat on brood frames
« Reply #29 on: December 12, 2014, 07:12:04 pm »
"migration tops, a piece of plywood, specially treated"

How is it specially treated?  I haven't seen any mention of it and want to build it as well as possible.  CA-C Pressure Treated?  I wouldn't think that is good around bees.
Tex,
I have seen the plywood but I cannot remember the name of it. It does not warp or rot, when left in the sun and rain, for years. I did several searches and I cannot find it. It looks like it is sealed and safe for hives. I thought Dadant sold it but I cannot find it in there catalog. The ones that I saw we 3/4".
Jim


They sell it here as "marine ply", as you build boats out of it; you can buy it quite cheaply as they use it for bracing in house framing. Go to Bunnings or K&D. The thin stuff (from memory) will be less than $10 a sheet of 1200mm x 600mm.

The veneer is hardwood so it will last forever out in the weather, the only difference from normal "interior" ply is that the glue is waterproof; there's no preservative, it doesn't need it, although a coat of decking oil is a good idea as this prevents silvering & weathering (which isn't the same as rotting).

Probably the same stuff that Jim134 is talking about.
« Last Edit: December 12, 2014, 09:39:40 pm by Richard M »

Offline Wombat2

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Re: Linoleum mat on brood frames
« Reply #30 on: January 11, 2015, 12:02:26 am »
I use a piece of vinyl - covering to the second frame in from each side and same distance from each end on the broad box - above the queen excluder - to keep the heat in in winter (from April on here) and in top box under the lid to stop burr comb being built.
David L

Offline Richard M

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Re: Linoleum mat on brood frames
« Reply #31 on: January 13, 2015, 03:19:43 am »
I use a piece of vinyl - covering to the second frame in from each side and same distance from each end on the broad box - above the queen excluder - to keep the heat in in winter (from April on here) and in top box under the lid to stop burr comb being built.

Winter? Sunshine Coast?

Your bees must be bloody soft.  :cheesy:

OK, silliness over - Tas is generally reckoned the coldest State in Aus (although winter in Hobart is far more comfortable than it is in Melbourne) but even so our Winters are still pretty warm compared with Europe/North America; our mean minimum in July is 4.6 degrees C, mean max temp is 11.7C, so hardly what you'd called cold really. We get maybe half a dozen light frosts each year down here close to sea level.

We had masonite inner covers initially but found they became soggy and mouldy, so we ditched them and went without, leaving a clear space from the tops of the frames to the migratory lid.

We had no problems with chilled brood through the winter, nor any difficulties with them building burr comb infill from the lid down to the frames, so in our climate, I'd question the need for the inner cover. Obviously a different story in North America/Europe and in freezing cold holes like Ballarat, Canberra, inland NSW/Qld, inland Tas etc - horses for courses I guess but until we see a reason, I don't think we'll be bothering fitting the inner covers for the time being.
« Last Edit: January 13, 2015, 05:15:15 am by Richard M »

Online max2

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Re: Linoleum mat on brood frames
« Reply #32 on: January 18, 2015, 01:14:36 am »
lino was very much accepted for many years. PLY or any other thin wood veneer  will work

Offline Richard M

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Re: Linoleum mat on brood frames
« Reply #33 on: January 18, 2015, 07:55:29 am »
I've heard that carpet - hessian, not rubber backed, is useful too. Insulating but permeable to condensation.

 

anything