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Offline JVarner

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What's this?
« on: November 01, 2018, 09:47:45 am »
At first glance I thought "virgin queen"...doubting that now...



The thorax is bald like a queen but the abdomen is stumpy...what do I have here?        My bees are mutts from central PA.

(...my first picture post - hopefully it comes through)

Offline TheHoneyPump

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What's this?
« Reply #1 on: November 01, 2018, 11:24:10 am »
That is a sick bee, a viral infected bee. Hairless bee is usually associated with chronic bee paralysis virus or acute bee paralysis virus. Suggest you do some google research on CBPV / ABPV and formulate your treatment plan.

Whatever you come up with for a plan will be from a wholesome health perspective as there is no treatment specifically for this virus. There are certainly manipulations that help though.
For example:  I see a few such bees I simply pick them off, pinch, and toss aside so they are gone away from the hive to prevent spreading. Once touching them, it is important to immediately wipe finger tips and tools with a disinfectant wipe (which you always have kept in your pocket, right) so the beekeeper does not become a source of the spread to other bees or to another hive. If there are a lot of hairless bees seen, I may decide to do a high shake out 10 yards away and let the good bees fly back. Some very young nurse bees will be lost in a shake out so consider all factors.

Since varroa is a strong vector of all viral spread, seeing such bees should also trigger a need for sampling of bees for mite load. The mite does not cause this one, but the mite does help spread it. Controlling the mite levels controls all virus. Appropriate mite treatment to use is based on the results of the sample and ambient conditions.

PS:  not many of these bees are seen over the summer time.  They tend to be seen in the spring after the bees have been stuck inside for winter, or the late fall just before drifting into winter.  Basically when bees are confined the virus spreads.  When bees are active and outside a lot the virus recedes.

Thanks for asking!    Hope that helps!
« Last Edit: November 01, 2018, 12:43:04 pm by TheHoneyPump »
When the lid goes back on, the bees will spend the next 3 days undoing most of what the beekeeper just did to them.

Offline beepro

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Re: What's this?
« Reply #2 on: November 01, 2018, 06:36:51 pm »
Some worker bees are just jet black from the local carnis genetic.  As long as there are not that many of
them then I would not be a concern.  The worker has a short lifespan anyway.   Just keep an eye on this
hive for now.  It is too late in the season to make a new queen unless other issue arrives.

Offline TheHoneyPump

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What's this?
« Reply #3 on: November 01, 2018, 07:21:40 pm »
Some worker bees are just jet black from the local carnis genetic.  As long as there are not that many of
them then I would not be a concern.  The worker has a short lifespan anyway.   Just keep an eye on this
hive for now.  It is too late in the season to make a new queen unless other issue arrives.

Nope, not that one.
« Last Edit: November 01, 2018, 11:13:40 pm by TheHoneyPump »
When the lid goes back on, the bees will spend the next 3 days undoing most of what the beekeeper just did to them.

Online Ben Framed

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Re: What's this?
« Reply #4 on: November 01, 2018, 08:43:51 pm »
Some worker bees are just jet black from the local carnis genetic.  As long as there are not that many of
them then I would not be a concern.  The worker has a short lifespan anyway.   Just keep an eye on this
hive for now.  It is too late in the season to make a new queen unless other issue arrives.

Nope

Thanks for the good information Mr HoneyPump. This is the first I've seen or heard of this... Much appreciated!
2 Chronicles 7:14
14 If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.

Van, Arkansas, USA

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Re: What's this?
« Reply #5 on: November 01, 2018, 10:34:55 pm »
Both are correct, HP has a good description, very detailed I might add of a virion {single virus} infected bee,  but did not mention the greasy or waxy finish that is usually associated.

There is a genetic mutant, hairless, glossy as pictured that I see in my hives yearly.  Now there is a big difference in the two described bees.  The one described by HP that is sickly, tired, slow, waxy, should be eliminated, exactly as he said.  The healthy mutant is a forager but I don?t know know the specifications.  I am going by eyes on experience.  Not uncommon to see the black mutant in most of my hives.

I have seen both bees, the one described by HP is easy to recognize do to its sickly appearance.  I have tried to figure out the genetics of the healthy hairless black bee.  There is a knock out of the gene coding for hair and a gene that restricts color to black.

There is a similiar known genetics in horses called a point gene, well understood that restricts black hairs to mane tail lower and legs.  The horse can genetically coded for all black yet the black hairs are limited as described. So the body color is not black.  A similiar gene not yet identified could limit yellow in a bee resulting in all black while also deleting hair.  Could be a deletion of a single amino acid required for yellow.

I AM GUESSING, as I stated the genetics are not identified in the hairless black honey bee and as a retired bacteriologist specializing in genetic engineering this is my best guess.
Blessings

Offline TheHoneyPump

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Re: What's this?
« Reply #6 on: November 02, 2018, 12:23:08 am »
I preferentially select for and breed the bees in my queen rearing operation. Often the queen and bees I select from are black. So in a sizeable portion my operation the bees are all black. Well almost all black in that they are black bees with dusty grey/black hair.

No healthy bee ever looks like the picture above. The bee in the picture presented above is not a black bee strain. It is a sick bee. It has no hair because it is pecked at by the other bees who know there is something wrong with it and spend extra time trying to clean and groom it, peeling its hair off. When next you are in a hive and spot a black hairless bee, just set back patiently watch and wait. You will soon see the other bees circling it and appear to groom it peck at it and harass it.

For example, here is a fresh queen from one of my mating nucs this summer.  The bee colors are a mixed hodgepodge because they were drawn from shakes and brood from various hives when I put all the nucs together.  Look closely in the picture.  Many of the bees on the right side of the picture are completely black bees. They do not appear black because their hair is dusty grey / charcoal.  If they were hairless they would look like the picture above. 

IMHO - If they are hairless, they are sick, and they get pinch+tossed from the hive if I see them.

« Last Edit: November 02, 2018, 12:36:34 am by TheHoneyPump »
When the lid goes back on, the bees will spend the next 3 days undoing most of what the beekeeper just did to them.

Online Ben Framed

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Re: What's this?
« Reply #7 on: November 02, 2018, 12:36:35 am »
I preferentially select for and breed the bees in my queen rearing operation. Often the queen and bees I select from are black. So in a sizeable portion my operation the bees are all black. Well almost all black in that they are black bees with dusty grey/black hair.

No healthy bee ever looks like the picture above. The bee in the picture presented above is not a black bee strain. It is a sick bee. It has no hair because it is pecked at by the other bees who know there is something wrong with it and spend extra time trying to clean and groom it, peeling its hair off. When next you are in a hive and spot a black hairless bee, just set back patiently watch and wait. You will soon see the other bees circling it and appear to groom it peck at it and harass it.

For example, here is a fresh queen from one of my mating nucs this summer.  The bee colors are a mixed hodgepodge because they were drawn from shakes and brood from various hives when I put all the nucs together.  Look closely in the picture.  Many of the bees on the right side of the picture are completely black bees. They do not appear black because their hair is dusty grey / charcoal.  If they were hairless they would look like the picture above.  If they are hairless, they are sick.

Very interesting fellows, and very educational. Especially coming from two well educated men as yourselves. Mr Claude, The black tailed queen that you have pictured, looks like the one that I described to beepro in a topic a while back where I told him that I had observed the workers dragging out SHBeetles and "thought that all bees did this".    I acquired This hive from a cutout in a ladys home. These bees are very gentle and very hard workers. Thanks, Phillip     
2 Chronicles 7:14
14 If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.

Offline TheHoneyPump

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Re: What's this?
« Reply #8 on: November 02, 2018, 12:48:54 am »
Just for fun.  Main breeder queen 1 of 3 in 2018, Theresa.  All black.
When the lid goes back on, the bees will spend the next 3 days undoing most of what the beekeeper just did to them.

Online Ben Framed

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Re: What's this?
« Reply #9 on: November 02, 2018, 12:56:01 am »
Just for fun.  Main breeder queen 1 of 3 in 2018, Theresa.  All black.

Good Pictures, but I got tickled on Theresa! Ah haa haa haa,   Now what did Michale Palmer teach us about naming the queen? That part was funny!  Have you watched that video? Its a great one!
Thanks, Phillip Hall
2 Chronicles 7:14
14 If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.

Offline TheHoneyPump

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Re: What's this?
« Reply #10 on: November 02, 2018, 12:59:11 am »
 :wink:
Can you guess the names of the other ones ?
When the lid goes back on, the bees will spend the next 3 days undoing most of what the beekeeper just did to them.

Online Ben Framed

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Re: What's this?
« Reply #11 on: November 02, 2018, 01:13:12 am »
:wink:

Ok Mr "HoneyPump. for fun Ill try!, Theresa?  :wink:  :grin: ah haa haa haa
 
« Last Edit: November 02, 2018, 01:50:14 am by Ben Framed »
2 Chronicles 7:14
14 If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.

Offline JVarner

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Re: What's this?
« Reply #12 on: November 02, 2018, 08:20:45 am »
Fascinating replies! I really appreciate the responses.

When I saw this one I tried to slip it into my queen cage to examine but it took flight immediately and I lost her. She seemed lively enough but due to the responses here I'll do some investigating and report back. Unfortunately, this was my last (intended) full inspection before closing up for winter. Perhaps if another warm day pops up I will have another close look.   

Should have added...this was a small late season split & tested nearly 0 for varroa

Online Ben Framed

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Re: What's this?
« Reply #13 on: November 02, 2018, 08:35:43 am »
Fascinating replies! I really appreciate the responses.

When I saw this one I tried to slip it into my queen cage to examine but it took flight immediately and I lost her. She seemed lively enough but due to the responses here I'll do some investigating and report back. Unfortunately, this was my last (intended) full inspection before closing up for winter. Perhaps if another warm day pops up I will have another close look.   

Should have added...this was a small late season split & tested nearly 0 for varroa

I had one fly off on me once,as I was introducing her , she had been in her cage with the new split for two days so I thought I would do her a favor and let her out.  Instead of going down into the hive , off she went! A big storm was coming and I thought she was a goner. After the storm I looked in the hive and to my amazement, there she was! She made her way back!!
2 Chronicles 7:14
14 If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.

Van, Arkansas, USA

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Re: What's this?
« Reply #14 on: November 02, 2018, 12:50:51 pm »
HP{ It has no hair because it is pecked at by the other bees who know there is something wrong with it and spend extra time trying to clean and groom it, peeling its hair off.}

To Whom It May Concern: please do not make up and then present fictional information as if fact.  This confuses the folks on Beemaster that are sincerely looking to learn facts.  Bees do not gang up and pluck hairs off a sickly bees as if a bunch of chickens.  Bees will fight a sickly bee, chew the wings and feet and drive a bee out of a hive.
In the future it is ok to disagree but defend with stated facts, state or defend your reasoning or your logic or a person can simply state in their opinion as a beek.

I try to pass on facts, if I do not don?t know facts for sure I state so or admit to guessing, but I never make up stuff.  Fact: 79% of statistics on the web are made up on the spot but on 19% of the people realize this.

The black hairless bee is the topic.  Stated: ALL hairless black are sick, please defend your statement with facts.  I have several of these bees, I have seen those bees for years, nothing new.  They forage on flowers, they appeared fine to me.  I admit I do not know the specific genetics.  In population of honeybees they appear to have a double recessive trait, this is my best guess based on small numbers.

There appears to me a high probability for two types of black hairless bees, why cannot a person entertain this notion.  Apparently I am not believed, by at least one,  that is ok but please do not counter with fiction.

Ok, I have seen these threads go viral with disagreements and Jim, Sawdust has to get involved when names start flying.  So ANY beek please respond maturely.  This is not one of those take sides issues. 

This is an issue of presenting information regarding a hairless black bee verses fiction of the same to the members of Beemaster. 
Blessings
« Last Edit: November 02, 2018, 02:40:41 pm by Van, Arkansas, USA »

Offline TheHoneyPump

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What's this?
« Reply #15 on: November 02, 2018, 01:39:52 pm »
Thanks Van,
I do not see any disagreement
I do not see any fiction
I do see well supported observations on both the viral bee and the mutant bee.
No sides are taken.
When the lid goes back on, the bees will spend the next 3 days undoing most of what the beekeeper just did to them.

Van, Arkansas, USA

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Re: What's this?
« Reply #16 on: November 02, 2018, 02:23:17 pm »
Bless you Mr. HoneyPump.

Offline BeeMaster2

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Re: What's this?
« Reply #17 on: November 02, 2018, 03:06:51 pm »
Van,
I had to step back and scratch my head also about black bees being sick. Like really. I also have lots of black bees in my hives especially in my observation hive. Thanks for clearing that up for everyone.
Jim
Democracy is 2 wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote.
Ben Franklin

Offline beepro

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Re: What's this?
« Reply #18 on: November 03, 2018, 11:19:03 pm »
From healthy hives, I have vids of bees harassing (cleaning?) another bee before but not a jet black bee.  Certainly it wasn't a hairless bee.  At least I don't assume it was a sick bee.  I still don't know completely what the bees are doing in the vids.  Are they cleaning or harassing the poor bee?  There are many variation of the hygienic behaviors.  In the bee world there are still many secrets/mystery that I do not yet understand.  I don't assume things until
it is tested and documented.  Running the many little bee experiment through out the 4 seasons will enable me to gain more knowledge about them.  I have yet to learn a lot from the bees!

Online Ben Framed

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Re: What's this?
« Reply #19 on: November 03, 2018, 11:35:37 pm »
I have somehing that I would like to say. There are two people here in particularly, I have come to know as friends. I dont think either one has any intention here but to help the honeybee and the beekeeper.  I realy believe this. One is Mr. Van the other is Mr Claude "TheHoneyPump". One says the hairless bee in the picture is sickly, "IMHO - If they are hairless, they are sick, and they get pinch+tossed from the hive if I see them". But also says that ther are mutation bees.
The other friend says the bee in the picture is not sick but a says its a mutant.  One friend, in post #5 reveled He is a retired bacteriologist specializing in genetic engineering. The other friend, has reviled to me a few weeks ago that he comes from a background of 7 generations of commercial beekeeping focused on high honey yields and R&D.  Current family operations are roughly 9,000 colonies. And he is also a retired engineer. I am not going to take sides here as I have great respect for both. As a retired bacteriologic prospective as Mr Van and a nature lover he doesnt want to pinch a bee if it is simply a mutant and as a hobbist beekeeper I can and completely understand this.  At the same time, I can understand Mr Claudes "opinion" and he had stated,("IMHO - If they are hairless, they are sick, and they get pinch+tossed from the hive if I see them".) His familys livelihood is totally dependant of a the health and survival of the honey bee, unlike myself or Mr. van a hobbist. I can see how Mr Claude  would have this opinion. He may not want to take the slightest chance of any kind of disease taking hold and ravaging his familys livelihood. 
Now, both have told me personal things of their background and are good humble people, not looking for notarity or fame. But as I have stated, simply want to help the bee and the beekeeper.
I have mentioned to each at one time or another, as a new beekeeper, its can sometimes be diffucult to distinguish what information that is posted  on a forum is accurate and what is not. That would be true for any forum or any other discussion on any subjesct I feel sure. I feel that we all here are blessed to have each of these men.  Now, Mr Claude I hope you dont mind me telling of your backgroud but Dallasbeek did ask me directly in another post and I figured this was the right time.
Thank each of you for being here and God Bless each of you!!

Sincerely, Phillip Hall "Ben Framed" 
 
« Last Edit: November 03, 2018, 11:54:51 pm by Ben Framed »
2 Chronicles 7:14
14 If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.

Van, Arkansas, USA

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Re: What's this?
« Reply #20 on: November 04, 2018, 12:00:40 am »
9,000 colonies, that is in credible.  I sometimes feel overwhelmed with 20.  I just can?t imagine that many hives.  I can only imagine the queen rearing operations.

I would like to suggest HoneyPump provide us with some basics for queen rearing.  Just the hands on approach, with specifics like queen castles or mating nucs.  I imagine a full time worker for just the queen rearing operation.

I raise my own queens and give most away.  As a hobbyist,I am insured, BUT if I sell one queen then I am a business and not insured.
Blessings

Offline TheHoneyPump

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Re: What's this?
« Reply #21 on: November 04, 2018, 03:15:59 am »
It's been a busy week of hauling, final OAV treatments, and stacking.
Closed the door today on one set. Done with them until March 2019
   https://drive.google.com/open?id=1UtVaKKnMoZySJPUzytnj9HgIvI_YAcgA
   https://drive.google.com/open?id=1OYPEhAtyBXjMU4bPD43ucbuE-ZTXAMtH
   https://drive.google.com/open?id=1Kup6ZfoKq3j_JPwjK98o95nzEXpH4aUT

Queen rearing:  Have to have a system of punctual precision. Queens and bees wait for no man. Have a system, be prepared, be disciplined, or do not start.

Black shiny hairless bee:  The basis for difference in opinion is not whether they exist or not. It is whether upon seeing one interprets them as normal and tolerates them in the apiary. The knowledge and experience here varies. Some apparently feel they are OK to have around. I clearly view those bees as anomalies and as symptoms that things are not normal and are not OK within the colony. (CBPV / ABPV).

The beehive is a super-organism, not a grouping of individual bees. How we have helped it or hindered it as beekeepers proves out through the overall health of the colony. On the whole is it vigorous and resilient or does it seem to linger on and do just ok? Normal is a matter of comparative observation and experience. How does the hive compare to the other nearby hives? Normal is also a creep. In one set of norms, an anomaly stands out. In another that has allowed the anomaly, it becomes the new norm and is overlooked. Some diversity in the beehive is desirable. However, be cautious on what is viewed and accepted as diverse versus what is a symptom or is anomalous.

Ultimately, Bee-keep the way that most pleases you in the spirit of what is best for the colony overall.
« Last Edit: November 05, 2018, 08:30:11 pm by TheHoneyPump »
When the lid goes back on, the bees will spend the next 3 days undoing most of what the beekeeper just did to them.

Offline BeeMaster2

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Re: What's this?
« Reply #22 on: November 04, 2018, 04:46:13 am »
Claude,
That is an impressive operation you have there.
What happens if you have a warm day while the bees are sill in the barn? Is it light tight when closed up?
I would not want to bee standing in the doorway. Very messy. 😜
Jim
Democracy is 2 wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote.
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Offline blackforest beekeeper

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Re: What's this?
« Reply #23 on: November 04, 2018, 06:10:49 am »
A concerning black bee.
orry - my keyboard i at fault.

In pine-flo black bee turn up a lot. they die oon after the flo. don`t like eeing them, either. but they diappear gain. too many - problem.

Online Ben Framed

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Re: What's this?
« Reply #24 on: November 05, 2018, 11:57:53 am »
The YouTube video, 

Tips on Working Bees Randy Oliver NY Bee Wellness

Shows a picture of the black bee. Start watching at 1:04:11
The mutant bee, is also discussed but very hard to hear the responders comments.   This would have been a good time for Mr Van to have been in the audience for questioning with a microphone!   😁

Again, I say, we are blessed to have Mr Van and Mr Claude P here!! Thank you both gentlemen!!

Sincerely, Phillip Hall
2 Chronicles 7:14
14 If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.

Offline blackforest beekeeper

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Re: What's this?
« Reply #25 on: November 05, 2018, 02:17:13 pm »
I preferentially select for and breed the bees in my queen rearing operation. Often the queen and bees I select from are black. So in a sizeable portion my operation the bees are all black. Well almost all black in that they are black bees with dusty grey/black hair.

No healthy bee ever looks like the picture above. The bee in the picture presented above is not a black bee strain. It is a sick bee. It has no hair because it is pecked at by the other bees who know there is something wrong with it and spend extra time trying to clean and groom it, peeling its hair off. When next you are in a hive and spot a black hairless bee, just set back patiently watch and wait. You will soon see the other bees circling it and appear to groom it peck at it and harass it.

For example, here is a fresh queen from one of my mating nucs this summer.  The bee colors are a mixed hodgepodge because they were drawn from shakes and brood from various hives when I put all the nucs together.  Look closely in the picture.  Many of the bees on the right side of the picture are completely black bees. They do not appear black because their hair is dusty grey / charcoal.  If they were hairless they would look like the picture above. 

IMHO - If they are hairless, they are sick, and they get pinch+tossed from the hive if I see them.

I just reread this thread.
The bees in this picture (right side) look like Carnica I would say. This mixture i have in my colonies, too.
The black bee in the first post is def. sick.
Black queens like the one pictured I get often, too. Most of them are not so good. I have the impression, when they raise a queen from worker larvae late, they often turn out black.

Online Ben Framed

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Re: What's this?
« Reply #26 on: November 05, 2018, 03:06:21 pm »
From BlackForest
"he bees in this picture (right side) look like Carnica I would say. This mixture i have in my colonies, too.
The black bee in the first post is def. sick.
Black queens like the one pictured I get often, too. Most of them are not so good. I have the impression, when they raise a queen from worker larvae late, they often turn out black"


Myself
I'm not saying the first picture is sick or not sick. I will say, These two men are very wise and very educated. Both make excellent points. No two people always see everything eye to eye. Even men with the best intentions. Just look at Paul and Peter in the Bible and that pretty well clears that up. I think they are both right in there from their point of view.  As I said before Mr Van being the kind soul that he is, would not want to kill even one bee unless he was absoulty 100 percent certain that there was a problem sick bee and not a mutant.  Mr Claude's family can't afford to take the chance. Nither man told me this, these are  my own words as per the impression I have come to as far as these good men are concerned.
It would be good to watch the video that I had titled in my previous post. I for one would like to see these two become the best of friends for the benefit of themselves as well as us here.
I sincerely mean that!  Phillip Hall
2 Chronicles 7:14
14 If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.

Offline Dallasbeek

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Re: What's this?
« Reply #27 on: November 05, 2018, 03:34:27 pm »
Ben Framed ---  Phillip, here's a quote from your post #19, I think.....

I have mentioned to each at one time or another, as a new beekeeper, its can sometimes be diffucult to distinguish what information that is posted  on a forum is accurate and what is not. That would be true for any forum or any other discussion on any subjesct I feel sure. I feel that we all here are blessed to have each of these men.  Now, Mr Claude I hope you dont mind me telling of your backgroud but Dallasbeek did ask me directly in another post and I figured this was the right time.
Thank each of you for being here and God Bless each of you!!


Remind me, please, what I asked of a personal nature.  I simply don't recall it.  I have few secrets on this forum or elsewhere and assume people will tell here whatever they are comfortable with, but don't recall asking.
"Liberty lives in the hearts of men and women; when it dies there, no constitution, no laws, no court can save it." - Judge Learned Hand, 1944

Online Ben Framed

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Re: What's this?
« Reply #28 on: November 05, 2018, 04:21:22 pm »
Sure Dallas, give me a few minutes to look it up.
2 Chronicles 7:14
14 If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.

Offline TheHoneyPump

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Re: What's this?
« Reply #29 on: November 05, 2018, 04:27:46 pm »
Ben, I am not aware of any lingering personal/friendship issues and even if there were from my perspective I consider the matter closed and have long since moved on. I am not here to get into conflicts nor driven to have to convince anyone of anything. The only reason I spend time here is where possible to provide a gateway to a broader experience, knowledge, and relaying of information that I hope can be helpful at enabling everyone to be better beekeepers and ultimately to have happier healthier populous colonies.

It is an open online forum after all. Folks will take away what they see as value, will discount that which they see is not, or may simply overlook what is not understood.  It is all free.  Free to take or free to leave.

Dallas - the question may be reference to a PM I had with Ben awhile ago.

All - I clearly stated the fact and the direct supportive reference in the first three sentences of my very first reply post on this thread to help guide the OP towards learning more about what likely is pictured and asked in -what's this- . Anyone who took initiative to review and research that guidance and reference given will have discovered plenty information to figure it out in short order. Perhaps it was too concise/succinct as somewhere along and somehow a very specific known viral symptom and how it occurs was labelled to be fiction versus a plausible mutant anomaly.  Admittedly I initially took some offence but certainly did not dwell on it for long. If deemed necessary, please just reread each of my posts on this for the consistency of facts and references as there really is nothing more I could add to help with this topic and will not spend any more cycles on it.

« Last Edit: November 05, 2018, 08:39:18 pm by TheHoneyPump »
When the lid goes back on, the bees will spend the next 3 days undoing most of what the beekeeper just did to them.

Online Ben Framed

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Re: What's this?
« Reply #30 on: November 05, 2018, 04:42:41 pm »
Ben Framed ---  Phillip, here's a quote from your post #19, I think.....

I have mentioned to each at one time or another, as a new beekeeper, its can sometimes be diffucult to distinguish what information that is posted  on a forum is accurate and what is not. That would be true for any forum or any other discussion on any subjesct I feel sure. I feel that we all here are blessed to have each of these men.  Now, Mr Claude I hope you dont mind me telling of your backgroud but Dallasbeek did ask me directly in another post and I figured this was the right time.
Thank each of you for being here and God Bless each of you!!


Remind me, please, what I asked of a personal nature.  I simply don't recall it.  I have few secrets on this forum or elsewhere and assume people will tell here whatever they are comfortable with, but don't recall asking.


My reply #37
Re: Feeding Pollen Substitute in Late Season

Quote from: Dallasbeek on October 25, 2018, 03:55:06 pm

I think a reading (or re-reading) of Randy Oliver's articles on fat bees at his website Scientific Beekeeping might shed some light (or heat) on this topic. 

I tend to agree that we don't want too many winter bees (fat bees) because they will consume an inordinate amount of the food stores.  We need enough to cover the first generation of brood resulting from the queen's resumption of laying in late winter.  Any more than that are a drain on the hive.  Does the queen lay all the eggs she can and trust that there are nurse bees there to care for the brood?  Or does the queen lay only enough eggs to be covered by the number of fat winter bees that she has available?  In the latter case, maybe a large population of winter bees would be desirable, but if there are more than necessary, then the surplus are a waste, and the excess number of bees could cause the bees in cluster in cold weather to consume all the stores available and kill the hive.  Seems to me a delicate balance perhaps left to the bees to determine.  Our best intentions may have unwanted results.  I'd prefer a gradual buildup in the spring to an explosion of numbers, I think, but it's difficult to know what to do in this hobby sometimes.

My reply to you Dallas
IF its difficult for you as a hobbyist, then what do you think about a first year beginner such as myself Haha. Wouldn't it be mice if we had someone on this forum who had a background of 7 generations of commercial beekeeping focused on high honey yields and R&D with current family operations of roughly 9,000 colonies.  And also an Engineering degree, a person who's family makes his or her living with bees can't afford to be blown in the wind, or take assuming guesses. They must know what he or she is talking about, wouldn't you agree?  If I had someone giving me advice such as that, I would listen very closely. Now if this person was a really nice person that joined this forum simply to help the hobbyist beekeeper as well as anyone else, and with all this experience, wouldn't that be nice of this selfless person. Especially if that person is humble. He, She  probably would not be interested in debating issues once he she has gave his advice. We are blessed here!
Thanks, Phillip Hall "Ben Framed"

Your reply #38
? Reply #38 on: October 25, 2018, 06:38:51 pm ?

*       Quote
Do you have anyone in mind, Phillip?
« Last Edit: November 05, 2018, 04:55:34 pm by Ben Framed »
2 Chronicles 7:14
14 If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.

Online Ben Framed

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Re: What's this?
« Reply #31 on: November 05, 2018, 04:48:41 pm »
This is a great forum. Lets all continue to learn and discuss no matter our level of  beekeeping experience.
Thanks Phillip  Hall
« Last Edit: November 05, 2018, 05:09:39 pm by Ben Framed »
2 Chronicles 7:14
14 If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.

Offline Dallasbeek

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Re: What's this?
« Reply #32 on: November 05, 2018, 05:34:52 pm »
Thanks, Phillip.  I just didn't recall specifically avsking about any member's bachground. I think I was referring to how specific you were as to 7 generations and 9,000 hives and wondered if you were referring to someone I could not place.

I have great respect for all the members of this forum, who share their knowledge and experience freely and agree with The Honey Pump (I take it he's Claude) that everyone is free to take it or not.  Personally, I feel like I benefit from reading everybody's stories, since the geographic range represented is so broad.  I have relatives all over the U.S. that are trying beekeeping, so when we discuss bees I have some idea about the kind of problems peculiar to their locations, as well as what seem to be some universal facts about beekeeping.
"Liberty lives in the hearts of men and women; when it dies there, no constitution, no laws, no court can save it." - Judge Learned Hand, 1944

Online Ben Framed

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Re: What's this?
« Reply #33 on: November 05, 2018, 10:46:01 pm »
I have great respect for all the members of this forum, who share their knowledge and experience freely and agree with The Honey Pump (I take it he's Claude) that everyone is free to take it or not.  Personally, I feel like I benefit from reading everybody's stories, since the geographic range represented is so broad.  .

Thanks Dallasbeek, I Appreciate you Sir.
2 Chronicles 7:14
14 If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.

Offline JVarner

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Re: What's this?
« Reply #34 on: March 22, 2019, 12:50:59 pm »
March 2019 update:
Hive appears to have overwintered well. No sign of hairless bee. Will continue to monitor & update as season progresses. Thanks again all.

 

anything