Anyone grafting?

[Ben Framed]

Good spring to all!   I'm just curious, have you started your grafting? I have been in my boxes twice or more and they are booming. Added boxes and frames twice already! New comb! New brood! I mean booming. I was looking for the right size larva to graft but most all the new eggs and larva are on brand new comb! White comb!  I went to Harbor Freight and bought jewelers optics but even stil, the Snow White comb and Snow White eggs and larva are a pain to see.. Hum  😊😁 I am dissipointed in myself as I have drones galore,  Nicot cups and rollers but no grafts! Man! I should have bought the complete Nicot system!!  😊😁😁
Phillip

[Michael Bush]

>I'm just curious, have you started your grafting?

No.  I doubt I will until May...

[CoolBees]

Here's a question bothering me, "why graft queens"? ... unless your selling queens of course.

As it stands right now, I've got 2 Nucs from each hive via opening the brood nest for swarm prevention. After the flow (June-ish here) I'm going to split each hive down 4 ways. That give me 7 hives for each 1 I had in January. Any unsuccessful queen hive gets another tray of brood in 4 weeks time. I've had a good success rate with this so far. (Key words "so far"). I'm already at 10 hives for 2019.

On this math starting with 3 hives (whose genetics I want to keep) I can do the following (if I wanted too):

2018 - 2 hives + 1 swarm
2019 - 21 hives (I'm at 10 now)
2020 - 147 hives
2021 - 1029 hives
Etc.

Not saying I will do this - just that it can (technically) be done.

So I'm confused (uneducated maybe) - why go thru all the trouble of grafting queens? ... (confession - I'm also lazy  )

Advice appreciated.

[van from Arkansas]

Cool, I enjoy grafting, the whole process.  It?s rewarding and just plain ol darn fun.  Grafting has its challenges and I like a challenge.

One note on your math of rearing bees.  A given location can only support so many hives.

[Ben Framed]

Here's a question bothering me, "why graft queens"? ... unless your selling queens of course.
So I'm confused (uneducated maybe) - why go thru all the trouble of grafting queens? ... (confession - I'm also lazy  )
Advice appreciated.

Van
Cool, I enjoy grafting, the whole process.  It?s rewarding and just plain ol darn fun.  Grafting has its challenges and I like a challenge.

I have seven hives. all are booming . Out of the seven I have a favorite. I would like to graft from this one particular queen.  By the late fall I look forward to hopefully having a substantial amount of Nucs going into the winter with this queens genetics. Just as importantly, the reasons Van stated.

[Michael Bush]

>Here's a question bothering me, "why graft queens"? ... unless your selling queens of course.

Let's go through some possibilities and the pros and cons:

If you make a hive queenless they will start cells.  But you will have to find the queen to make them queenless.  Then when it's time to put the cells in a hive you have to cut them out of a comb.  Not undoable, but not simple.

If you use a system like Nicot or Jenter you have to go to the hive, find the queen and confine her.  Then go back in 24 hours and release her.  Then go back and get in the hive to transfer the larvae.  Then go back in ten days from when you confined the queen and put the cells in mating nucs.  The cells are easy to move around.  No cells to cut out.

If you graft, you look until you find a frame of the right size larvae, and graft them.  Then go back in 10 days and put them in mating nucs.  The cells are easy to move around, no cutting cells out.

Grafting:  Less trips to the beeyard, easy to handle cells.  No need to find the queen to make them queenless or confine the queen etc.

[Ben Framed]

Thanks Mr Bush, you guys are a blessing. Makes beekeeping much more enjoyable, interesting and educational, with you experts here at Beemaster. You all are always glad to give your good advise and share your years of experience. I really appreciate each of you. I wish I had ordered some black plastic frame. As a matter of fact, I intend to do that as soon as possiably. Prehaps next year my comb will be seasoned enough that I will be more clearly able to see the required larva. If you have a suggestion that will be better, I am all ears. 😊😁
Thank Y'all
Phillip

[jtcmedic]

https://youtu.be/lxSzuDv2up4 gonna do like Jim with double screen. Oh and mr Ed  video explains it well

[van from Arkansas]

Mr. Ben, Phil, I use a stereo microscope.  My eyes are not what they once were.  The stereo microscope removes any guess work.  I use a total of 8X magnifying although my Nikon scope mags up to 80X.  With 80X I could view inside the mouth of a larva, no need for that kind of mag.

Cost of stereo microscopes: from $100 to mid 5 figures for the optical grade surgical scopes.  I paid $750 as I am a bit of a scope fanatic as some would say.  We all have our toys, I used to shell out thousands for a single firearm.  It?s all relative.

With bees as a hobbyist, I just have fun and enjoy.  I also enjoy the enthusiasm that Cool, Ben, Don G. and others have.

[CoolBees]

Van - yes, there's a limitation on # of hives per location.

Phillip - I can see where targeting queens for a specific genetics makes grafting the best choice. And for enjoyment. I get that. Hadn't thought that thru. :)

Mr Bush - as always from you - that makes total sense. Less trips to the beeyard. Quicker and more efficient. A must when the size of the apiary(s) grows.

Thank you to each of you for the responses.

[van from Arkansas]

Cool, with your enthusiasm, I would bet you will be raising queens within a year.  You enjoy the bees, grafting, raising your own queens is tempting and rewarding. 

As far as genetics are concerned, I did not mention due to the fact a beek can always make a queenless split from a hive with desired traits providing eggs or larva from a desired queen to the split.  The bees would raise the queen for you.

The ultimate to selecting for genetic traits is II.  Poland is the II capital of the world generating over 10,000 II queens a year from 500 trained beeks as portrayed in American Bee Journal just a few months ago.  Out of the 500 trained beeks, only 50 were considered very good with only FIVE, 5, being commercial quality.  Five beeks in the whole country, that is not very many considering Poland is the II capitol of the world and most likely the single most govt back/supported bee industry of any country.  In Poland bees are considered important as cattle in the US, II QUEENS are registered with the state.

[iddee]

We have been grafting for 2 weeks.

https://worldwidebeekeeping.com/forum/index.php?topic=8257.0

[van from Arkansas]

ID, Jim, I noticed on the other forum: FORUM SUPPORTER by a person name.  Why not have that on this site.  I support now and then but who would know.  I?d probably support even more if SUPPORTER was so noted.
Blessings

[CoolBees]

Cool, with your enthusiasm, I would bet you will be raising queens within a year.  You enjoy the bees, grafting, raising your own queens is tempting and rewarding. 

You might be right Van - for the moment it still seems like too much work haha! I've had luck just dropping a frame of brood and eggs, + a frame of honey + 3 shakes of nurse bees = come back in 30 days. Add another frame of eggs if needed (queen got ate in mating flight, etc) and come back in another 30 days.

However, for replacing a missing queen in a large hive right at the beginning of season, that wouldn't work. So you might be more right than I know now. 

As far as genetics are concerned, I did not mention due to the fact a beek can always make a queenless split from a hive with desired traits providing eggs or larva from a desired queen to the split.  The bees would raise the queen for you.

That's how I've been doing it.

The ultimate to selecting for genetic traits is II.  Poland is the II capital of the world generating over 10,000 II queens a year from 500 trained beeks as portrayed in American Bee Journal just a few months ago.  Out of the 500 trained beeks, only 50 were considered very good with only FIVE, 5, being commercial quality.  Five beeks in the whole country, that is not very many considering Poland is the II capitol of the world and most likely the single most govt back/supported bee industry of any country.  In Poland bees are considered important as cattle in the US, II QUEENS are registered with the state.

Thats just amazing! :)

Oh the things I've yet to learn!!! :)

[BeeMaster2]

ID, Jim, I noticed on the other forum: FORUM SUPPORTER by a person name.  Why not have that on this site.  I support now and then but who would know.  I?d probably support even more if SUPPORTER was so noted.
Blessings

Van,
I sent a copy of this to the other administrators to see what they think. This is up to John (Beemaster).
I think it is a good idea.
Jim Altmiller