Adding foundationless frames to a hive with foundation

[LizzieBee]

I?m going to add my honey super soon. I have plasticell foundation coated with beeswax that I was planning on using. That is what the rest of the hive is (two deep brood boxes). I would like to chunks of honey filled comb to spread on toast and whatever else. That doesn?t seem to work if I use foundation... is it ok to go foundationless in the super even though the rest of the hive has foundation?

Lizzie

[gww]

You can buy wax foundation that is used for comb honey.  You can get use foundationless but need some kind of guide for the bees to follow so they draw strait comb.  The biggest problem may be baiting the super so that they have a ladder and guide and reason to start using the super.  I am all medium and all foundationless and I usually pull a frame (brood works best) of drawn comb into the super to entice them up.   If there is a flow on, it works great.
Good luck
gww

[BeeMaster2]

Lizzie,
Bees prefer foundation less over wax foundation and wax foundation over plastic foundation. So the answer is it should not bee a problem. As mentioned by Gww, you need to give them a quide. A couple of popcycle sticks in the top slot, painted with melted bees wax should do the trick.
Jim

[Dustymunky]

I would be concerned that the bees would build drones comb in the super without an excluder. If the brood chamber is all foundation then they probably have a burning desire to rear drones. I used foundation and foundationless in supers last year.  They climbed up the foundation and built it out. They were alot slower to build out the foundationless. This year i bought Acorn foundation for my supers.  It has extra wax applied. They are using it now. It is a pain to get them to build out the supers though. Will be nice when my supers are are all built out.

[moebees]

They likely will draw comb more readily on the foundationless compared to foundation so that is not a problem.  The only problem is that they make a mess of it with no drawn comb as a guide.  If all your frames are the same size and you are using an excluder I would pull two frames of brood into the super and put the foundationless between them so they make straight even comb.

[LizzieBee]

Thanks for the advice. I decided to just put the super on with what I already have (plasticell foundation with a layer of beeswax.) I also added the queen excluder underneath.

Lizzie

[cao]

My advise may be contrary to others.  If you are just wanting some chunk honey for personal use, I would just remove one frame with foundation and replace it with a foundationless frame with guide strip.  They will typically draw it out first.  And they have the foundation on either side for guides so they won't build across multiple frames.  You just need to check on them to make sure they are drawing it out correctly.

I also added the queen excluder underneath.

If the bees have a honey dome on the top of your second box an excluder is not necessary.  The queen will rarely cross it.  Sometimes a queen excluder slows the bees from using the honey super.  If they don't start drawing the frames in your super, I would remove the excluder.

[moebees]

My advise may be contrary to others.  If you are just wanting some chunk honey for personal use, I would just remove one frame with foundation and replace it with a foundationless frame with guide strip.  They will typically draw it out first.  And they have the foundation on either side for guides so they won't build across multiple frames.  You just need to check on them to make sure they are drawing it out correctly.

Since it is a honey super they will not use the foundation as a guide they will extend the cells from the foundationless frame all the way over to the foundation on each side and after they have the rest of the super drawn you may have difficulty getting the frame out.  With a single frame it may be ok but you also end up with two frames drawn only on one side.

[cao]

Since it is a honey super they will not use the foundation as a guide they will extend the cells from the foundationless frame all the way over to the foundation on each side and after they have the rest of the super drawn you may have difficulty getting the frame out.  With a single frame it may be ok but you also end up with two frames drawn only on one side.

That is a possibility.  That is why I mentioned that she should check on them.  If they start drawing comb on the foundationless frame, she could move it to the edge so it will only effect one other frame.  Then remove after it is capped and replace it with a new frame.

[eltalia]

Liz, two tips for edible comb I discovered on test, that is not read
anywhere.
Firstly, the best comb comes in a flow.
Secondly, the best presentable comb comes from the
extents, like #1,#2,#9,#10.
Comb build (when) is selfexplanatory, and the extents owning
the best comb is 'cos the bees aren't dragging their little tootsies
over it continually.

The rest is what the thread posts say, you'll work out what works
best with your bees.

Bill

[Joe D]

You can put every other frame foundationless and the others have foundation, it will help them to run the comb straight, usually.  but you will need to keep a check on their progress.  You can extract foundationless if it is secured fairly good to the frame.  By the next extraction it should be as good for extraction as foundation frames.  By my second or third year I removed all the excluders, on occasion I think about putting some back but haven't.  Like Bill said just do what works best for you and your bees.  I do what I think is best at the time whether or not anyone else does.


Good luck to you and your bees,


Joe D

[LizzieBee]

I?m doing nine frame in a ten frame medium honey super. Since I had that extra frame, I decided to do an experiment. I cut a strip of beeswax coated foundation about an inch tall. I used four pieces of wire to secure it underneath the top bar. I switched it with another frame in the middle of the super (which has not been drawn out at all, I added the super yesterday). So the bees have a small guide so I?m hoping to have a frame of comb honey.

Lizzie

[Oldbeavo]

In a full depth, put a horizontal bar 1/2x1/2" or smaller dimensions if you can. paint or rub molten wax on all internal surfaces, put between two drawn frames in a good honey flow and the bees will do the rest.
If above the excluder they will draw drone comb, but what the heck, your going to cut it out anyway.
The horizontal bar allows you to spin honey out in you want to, also you can cut out one half at a time and let them rebuild.

[cao]

I?m doing nine frame in a ten frame medium honey super. Since I had that extra frame, I decided to do an experiment. I cut a strip of beeswax coated foundation about an inch tall. I used four pieces of wire to secure it underneath the top bar. I switched it with another frame in the middle of the super (which has not been drawn out at all, I added the super yesterday). So the bees have a small guide so I?m hoping to have a frame of comb honey.

Lizzie

Typically when you put 9 frames in a ten frame super they are already drawn.  With only foundation the bee space is wrong and they might build comb between frames using the plastic foundation as walls and not building on them.  Usually you start with ten frames and remove one after they are drawing the comb and before they cap it.  Just something to look out for.  Hope you get your comb honey.