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Offline Beeboy01

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Back after the battle
« on: February 19, 2018, 11:21:36 pm »
Finally came back after battling SHB's and a heavy mite infestation, I was a little embarrassed with the shape of my hives. Last year was an eye opener with the slow realization that my old ways of bee keeping just doesn't work with the pests we have to deal with.  Ended up with home built screened bottom boards with trays for SHB control. I used soapy water in the trays for almost 2 months last summer which decimated the SHB's along with ground drench, micro fiber duster pads, and beetle traps.
  Then had to deal with mites, it was a sobering afternoon in late November when I spotted ten or twelve young bees with crinkled wings crawling around the yard. Treated all the hives with Apivar, first time I have used the product and within the first week the tray under the infected hive was shiny from dead mites. Got a mite drop from my other two hives but the infected one was scary but it looks like it is recovering. Learned a lot in a short time and am feeding the girls to build them up for a possible split to make a fourth hive.
   

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Re: Back after the battle
« Reply #1 on: February 19, 2018, 11:26:06 pm »
Welcome back Beeboy. Glad it is working out for you.
Jim
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Offline bwallace23350

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Re: Back after the battle
« Reply #2 on: February 20, 2018, 09:14:49 am »
Glad you are back.

Offline yes2matt

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Re: Back after the battle
« Reply #3 on: February 20, 2018, 05:29:15 pm »


Quote from: Beeboy01 link=topic=50967.msg448660#msg448660
  Ended up with home built screened bottom boards with trays for SHB control. I used soapy water in the trays for almost 2 months last summer which decimated the SHB's along with ground drench, micro fiber duster pads, and beetle traps.
 

What was your most effective weapon against SHB? 

I think I understand you put a tray of soapy water under the screened bottom but the beetles can't get thru the screen, can they? Does that work?

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Offline Acebird

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Re: Back after the battle
« Reply #4 on: February 20, 2018, 05:39:57 pm »
Beetles fall right through #8 screen.
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Offline Beeboy01

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Re: Back after the battle
« Reply #5 on: February 20, 2018, 09:14:20 pm »
Acebird hit it right on the head of the nail, the SHB's drop through the #8 screen and drown in the soapy water. The hives need to be level and the soapy water evaporated and needed to be refilled every two or three days. The trays also picked up a lot of debris and needed to get cleaned   every refill. I would think oil could also be used in the trays but they still would gum up with hive debris.
  I also had good success with the unscented microfiber duster pads. I placed them above the frames in the corners of the top super and the microfibers snagged the small horns or hooks found on the SHB's legs immobilizing them. They got replaced every week because the bees were covering them with propolus. 
  The #8 screening came from Walmart on line, for about $25.00 I was able to order a 2 foot x 10 foot roll which gave me enough screen to make 6 bottom boards.
Here are pictures of the screened bottom boards and the SHB kill.
« Last Edit: February 20, 2018, 09:33:38 pm by Beeboy01 »

Offline bwallace23350

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Re: Back after the battle
« Reply #6 on: February 21, 2018, 09:08:34 am »
People are talkign about SHB and I have yet to actually see one in my hive nor have I seen damage from them. Am I missing something?

Offline Acebird

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Re: Back after the battle
« Reply #7 on: February 21, 2018, 09:20:51 am »
If or when you get them you will never get rid of them completely.
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Offline bwallace23350

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Re: Back after the battle
« Reply #8 on: February 21, 2018, 09:34:10 am »
Lets hope I never get them

Offline Acebird

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Re: Back after the battle
« Reply #9 on: February 21, 2018, 02:20:25 pm »
Mine came in a nuc.  Only 3 or 4 in the top box.  That lasted a couple of years and then it seemed like they have increased.  Now they are a problem.  I need to be more vigilant on cleaning them out of the tray and giving them to the chickens.
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Offline Beeboy01

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Re: Back after the battle
« Reply #10 on: February 21, 2018, 03:44:01 pm »
I think my SHB problem came from two or three local bee yards that were over run by them and the beetles moved en mass into my yard destroying five out of six hives in about a month. Once they were established I had to take it to a different level to control them or loose my last hive. It has taken me  two years to get on top of them. I didn't like the design of store bought screened bottom boards, they were made too light and out of pine which rots so I made mine out of some red wood and incorporated the tray for SHB control. 
  There seem to be two different types of SHB attack. The first is where there is a low level of beetles in a hive waiting for the opportunity to lay eggs. If the hive swarms or the SHB's get out of their jail areas then the hive gets attacked. I have heard of bee keepers in the area who have opened a hive for inspection, released the SHB's from their jail areas and then lost the hive the next week to the larva. I have started to fill the trays with soapy water right before an inspection. The bees will drive the released SHB's down through the screened bottom board where most of them hit the soapy water and drown which is a good thing. 
  The second type of SHB attack I've experienced is where a massive amount of beetles come in from another bee yard and overwhelm a hive in the course of one or two nights. There is not much that can be done for the second type of attack.I ended up closing down all the entrances to the hive except for one which I lined with Check Mite strips which is  approved for SHB control. After the first night I could of filled a shot glass with dead SHB's and it took almost a week till the attack stopped.
  Integrated pest management along with ground drenches  and constant being on my toes has been the only way I've been able to keep the SHB's under control. At least there was a below freezing cold snap this year which knocked some beetles out of the hives.
Sorry about the long post but need to share what has worked for me.       

Offline Acebird

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Re: Back after the battle
« Reply #11 on: February 21, 2018, 05:39:19 pm »
My cold snap last for 3-4 months and it doesn't do them in.  Somehow they survive in the cluster.
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Re: Back after the battle
« Reply #12 on: February 21, 2018, 06:02:14 pm »
Beeboy, in our area, Southern US, I consider the shb more of a threat the mites.  You are so correct:  the beetles in jail are confined until the beekeepers open the hive.  The beetles then make a jail break, a week later, larva and slimed comb.

The slime is actually a yeast secreted by the beetle larva emits an odor which is an attractment to  shb.

The second attack you describe is on the money also.  I have caught 20 beetles in a single trap in a single night.  I figure I catch maybe 50% at most.

The freeze gun is deadly on the small hive beetle, my freeze gun is a can of freeze spray available on Amazon or at office supply stores.  At minus 62F, non flammable, non toxic gas is controlled by a trigger and precisely aimed by directing a small tube, like on wd40 without harm to a bee 1/2 inch away.  It the same spray often used in doctors office to freeze skin aberrations and to spray clean computer chips. 

I buy the cans by the case of 24.  I?m not supposed to state price but I can say, the spray can is very affordable.

Actually, it?s a blast to spray the beetles.  My bees seemed trained to it and get out of the way so I have a clear shot at a beetle that hides deep in a cell.  That beetle is a goner.  I like it, so do my bees.  The bees don?t seem to mind one little bit.

Offline Dallasbeek

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Re: Back after the battle
« Reply #13 on: February 21, 2018, 06:29:35 pm »
 Sounds like fun, Van. 
"Liberty lives in the hearts of men and women; when it dies there, no constitution, no laws, no court can save it." - Judge Learned Hand, 1944

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Re: Back after the battle
« Reply #14 on: February 21, 2018, 07:10:38 pm »
People are talkign about SHB and I have yet to actually see one in my hive nor have I seen damage from them. Am I missing something?

Wallace, in Alabama I guarantee you have shb.  Consider you may have a strain of bee that ?takes care of? the small hive beetle.  This is my thought.  You should look into your bee strain more seriously.  You may have a precious bee.
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Re: Back after the battle
« Reply #15 on: February 21, 2018, 08:52:20 pm »
Wallace,
I agree with your 2 theories. Keep your inspections to a minimum as far as how deep you go into a hive, just enough to know everything is ok.  Don't worry about seeing the queen.
The second problem is caused buy someone's or some feral hive being taken over and the SHBs will produce many thousands of larvae and they drop out of the hive and pupate. SHBs can also use rotting fruit to do the same.
Jim
Democracy is 2 wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote.
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Re: Back after the battle
« Reply #16 on: February 21, 2018, 08:57:01 pm »
Brian,
If I were you, in the far north, during my fall inspection, I would very carefully inspect the hive and attempt to remove every beetle in your hives. They cannot survive your winters outside of the hive. If you have no other apiaries near you you might get rid of them for good or at least until someone brings them into your area.
Jim
Democracy is 2 wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote.
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Offline Acebird

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Re: Back after the battle
« Reply #17 on: February 22, 2018, 09:02:35 am »
The talk from club members say that hive beetles are becoming more of a problem up here.  They like to blame it on southern packages but that doesn't make much sense to me.  Where would the beetles hide in a box with no comb?
This year is the worst for box elder beetles.  My wife is going nuts.  We kill 20 a day and there are hundreds everywhere.  I am beginning to wonder if these bugs can survive winter in the heat of the composting wood left from the clearing of our land.  Maybe the hive beetles are taking advantage?
I have been avoiding putting soapy water or oil in my bottom trays because it means regular visits to the hive.  Maybe I can't be so lazy in the future.
From the discussions on this forum it doesn't appear that I will be able to have bees in FL without confronting the beetle problem.
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Offline Beeboy01

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Re: Back after the battle
« Reply #18 on: February 22, 2018, 10:18:41 am »
Ace, beekeeping down here in Florida is easier in some respects without the extended winter you have to deal with up north but it also has it's own challenges with the pests and Africanized bees. I was beekeeping up in Pennsylvania for years and coming down here was a big change for me. 

Offline Hops Brewster

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Re: Back after the battle
« Reply #19 on: February 22, 2018, 11:21:32 am »
The talk from club members say that hive beetles are becoming more of a problem up here.  They like to blame it on southern packages but that doesn't make much sense to me.  Where would the beetles hide in a box with no comb?
This year is the worst for box elder beetles.  My wife is going nuts.  We kill 20 a day and there are hundreds everywhere.  I am beginning to wonder if these bugs can survive winter in the heat of the composting wood left from the clearing of our land.  Maybe the hive beetles are taking advantage?
I have been avoiding putting soapy water or oil in my bottom trays because it means regular visits to the hive.  Maybe I can't be so lazy in the future.
From the discussions on this forum it doesn't appear that I will be able to have bees in FL without confronting the beetle problem.

Ace, those box elder beetles do overwinter under leaves and composting material wherever it is, or wherever they can easily get under ground.  When I bought my house it was covered in those darn things.  I still have some hanging out in my yard, 15 years after cutting down the only box elder tree (I call them box elder weeds) in my yard. 
They are fond of trees like maple and box elder, those that have winged seeds.  So you can cut down every BE weed on your lot, but if any of your neighbors have maples or BE weeds you will still get at least a few on your property.
Winter is coming.

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Offline Acebird

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Re: Back after the battle
« Reply #20 on: February 22, 2018, 12:59:35 pm »
Ah, pretty tough to kill box elder by just cutting it down and the lot is full of them.  And then there is the boost that my hives get from them in the spring.  There is also 100 pounds of sunflower seed shells that are composting directly under the deck.  Do you suggest I tell the wife she can't feed the cardinals anymore?  No point in going there.  For the most part the bugs are bothering my wife.  I just don't like them flying on my head and crawling through my hair.
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Re: Back after the battle
« Reply #21 on: February 22, 2018, 04:05:27 pm »
Brian,
Had to look up what a box elder beetle looks like. Looks like they are about the size of a small cockroach. No wonder you hate them.
Here is a link.


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Re: Back after the battle
« Reply #22 on: February 22, 2018, 04:09:52 pm »
Well that did not work. If you just type in "box elder beetle" lots of pictures show up.
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Offline texanbelchers

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Re: Back after the battle
« Reply #23 on: February 22, 2018, 04:54:09 pm »
Ace - Mineral oil is good in the bottom pan.  It doesn't get rancid like vegetable oil when left.  Neither evaporate like soapy water, so you don't have to visit too often.

I keep fighting with myself on oil traps.  They are extremely effective and not difficult to maintain on a few hives.  However, I want to grow and it doesn't seem reasonable to handle 40+ oil traps.  Plus, they really need to be very level for best effectiveness; throwing them on a couple concrete blocks in a rough field won't do.

Offline Acebird

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Re: Back after the battle
« Reply #24 on: February 22, 2018, 10:39:59 pm »
Looks like they are about the size of a small cockroach. No wonder you hate them.
Actually they are a colorful bug but they do resemble a roach.  They don't bite or carry any disease.  They do tickle when they get in your hair.  Wife just freaks out with many colorful words and she is not a woose.
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Offline Acebird

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Re: Back after the battle
« Reply #25 on: February 22, 2018, 10:51:51 pm »
Ace - Mineral oil is good in the bottom pan.  It doesn't get rancid like vegetable oil when left.  Neither evaporate like soapy water, so you don't have to visit too often.

Ok so the tray is about 5/8 deep.  How much oil do you put in the pan?  If I don't visit the hive in two or three weeks there is going to be a lot of crap besides the beetles in there.  And then what do you do with the oil and crap in the pan?  Do you strain out the oil and reuse?  Right now if I don't put anything in the pan I can just feed it to the chickens but that means visiting the hive every day or two otherwise they just fly back up into the hive.  Actually the crap is the bait they like going down in the crap that falls in the tray.
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Offline Beeboy01

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Re: Back after the battle
« Reply #26 on: February 22, 2018, 11:54:46 pm »
I have used micro fiber unscented dusting pads for SHB control. It hasn't caught on yet around here but I believe they have microfiber pads in the new Dadant catalog under SHB control which does the same thing.
  My routine for a hive inspection that has SHB's is to open the hive, check the Beetle Blaster traps, kill any that I spot crawling around then put a 1/2 duster sheet in opposite corners of the top box.  After that I fill the tray with soapy water and come back one or two days later to check and clean the tray. If there are only a few dead SHB's I won't refill the tray. If there are a lot I keep checking and refilling till the number drop. After a week or ten days the duster pads get checked and replaced. I don't like leaving them in any longer, the bees will cover them with propolus which defeats their purpose.
  Don't know if my routine would work for a larger beeyard, I only have three hives right now and they are easy to get to behind the shop. Keeping a hive strong is one of the best SHB controls, they are opportunistic and wait for the hive to weaken.

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Re: Back after the battle
« Reply #27 on: February 23, 2018, 08:42:23 am »
Ace - Mineral oil is good in the bottom pan.  It doesn't get rancid like vegetable oil when left.  Neither evaporate like soapy water, so you don't have to visit too often.

Ok so the tray is about 5/8 deep.  How much oil do you put in the pan?  If I don't visit the hive in two or three weeks there is going to be a lot of crap besides the beetles in there.  And then what do you do with the oil and crap in the pan?  Do you strain out the oil and reuse?  Right now if I don't put anything in the pan I can just feed it to the chickens but that means visiting the hive every day or two otherwise they just fly back up into the hive.  Actually the crap is the bait they like going down in the crap that falls in the tray.
Brian,
I just put enough oil in the tray to cover the bottom. I would leave the oil in the tray for about 30 days. Just pour the oil in the bushes where you are not going to step in it. Vegetable oil does not bother the plants like petroleum products do. If you have a lot of SHBs, the trays will be solid black in 30 days. If you put it in a bunch of hives you will kill a ton of them and eventually seriously decrease your local population of SHBs.
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Offline Acebird

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Re: Back after the battle
« Reply #28 on: February 23, 2018, 08:47:58 am »
30 days!  I could handle that.
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Offline Hops Brewster

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Re: Back after the battle
« Reply #29 on: February 23, 2018, 11:46:36 am »
Ah, pretty tough to kill box elder by just cutting it down and the lot is full of them.  And then there is the boost that my hives get from them in the spring.  There is also 100 pounds of sunflower seed shells that are composting directly under the deck.  Do you suggest I tell the wife she can't feed the cardinals anymore?  No point in going there.  For the most part the bugs are bothering my wife.  I just don't like them flying on my head and crawling through my hair.
Yes sir, it is.  I still have box elder suckers come up every spring that I need to cut out and curse at.  THat's why I call them weeds.
Now I wouldn't suggest anything to your wife.  I might hint to her that she's crazy for hitching up to a beek though  :grin:
Winter is coming.

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Offline Acebird

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Re: Back after the battle
« Reply #30 on: February 23, 2018, 12:55:20 pm »
I might hint to her that she's crazy for hitching up to a beek though  :grin:

Ha, she's crazy for hitching up to me!

The wood rots fast so if you keep up with the suckers and keep digging up the rotted trunk it will give up.
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Offline Beeboy01

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Re: Back after the battle
« Reply #31 on: February 23, 2018, 03:59:42 pm »
Box Elder Beetles, I remember them. We had an invasion of them early one spring when I lived up north. There must of been thousands of them gathered in and around the front porch, had to sweep them out of the way with a broom. ICK !!!

Offline Dallasbeek

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Re: Back after the battle
« Reply #32 on: February 23, 2018, 04:03:54 pm »
Ah, pretty tough to kill box elder by just cutting it down and the lot is full of them.  And then there is the boost that my hives get from them in the spring. 
Yes sir, it is.  I still have box elder suckers come up every spring that I need to cut out and curse at.  THat's why I call them weeds.
Now I wouldn't suggest anything to your wife.  I might hint to her that she's crazy for hitching up to a beek though  :grin:

Google "Extractigator" and watch videos of these things in action, pulling up saplings by the roots.  Pretty amazing.
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Offline Acebird

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Re: Back after the battle
« Reply #33 on: February 23, 2018, 04:38:55 pm »
That might be useful for saplings that I can't get my tractor next to.  Normally I let the sapling grow to 1-2 inches and then wrap a chain around the trunk and pull it out.  The bigger problem is a 2-3 ft dia stumps.  Suckers will grow out of the stump and keep the roots alive so you have to keep cutting them off.  It took me about 6 years of constant whittling at a 5 ft stump with my tractor bucket to finally win the battle.  They rot fast but that won't happen if you don't cut off the suckers.
We have a lot of sumac that is a real pain because of the root system.  But I don't think the trunk is strong enough to pull out a sapling with that extractigator.
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Offline Dallasbeek

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Re: Back after the battle
« Reply #34 on: February 23, 2018, 05:15:49 pm »
Yeah, those things are made for young saplings up to 2 inches in dia, not suckers from big tree stumps.  But for saplings, they seem to beat trying to dig out roots and all.
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