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Author Topic: 'Manuka' & 'Jelly Bush' Honey nothing more than a money grab?  (Read 12715 times)

Offline SilentSkeptic

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'Manuka' & 'Jelly Bush' Honey nothing more than a money grab?
« on: January 18, 2016, 08:57:35 am »
I can't help but think the whole Manuka and Jelly Bush phenomenon of 'medical honey' is nothing more than a marketing gimmick aimed at a quick profit for the companies and individuals involved. For one the studies on the supposed benefits are carried out by companies who benefit from the industry.

It seems the whole industry is only existing because a superstitious Chinese public will buy anything if it is marketed at them as healthy, as their traditional interest in Rhino horn, Shark Fin Soup and other gimmicks prove.

Sure these honeys may have added benefits due to the unique compounds transferred from the Manuka and Jelly bush plants, but is anyone going to tell me one would not get the same benefits simply by boiling the leaves of these plants and drinking them as tea as the early settlers did?

It all just seems a marketing scam to me and an excuse to raise honey prices beyond acceptable norms.
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Offline SilentSkeptic

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Re: 'Manuka' & 'Jelly Bush' Honey nothing more than a money grab?
« Reply #1 on: January 18, 2016, 09:04:58 am »
Does anyone here produce these types of honey? If so what do you think? Personally I don't see how ingesting a compound that has anti microbial abilities on par with a commercial grade disinfectant is healthy. Such a compound could not discern between good and bad microbes. Leaves me to think there will be a lot of Chinese people left with gut bacteria all out of whack if they are consuming this in large quantities everyday.
« Last Edit: January 18, 2016, 09:16:50 am by SilentSkeptic »
"I'm not naive, this is not an isolated move by a senile judge in New York. Because vultures look a lot like the eagles of empires." Cristina Kirchner

Offline BeeMaster2

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Re: 'Manuka' & 'Jelly Bush' Honey nothing more than a money grab?
« Reply #2 on: January 18, 2016, 02:29:29 pm »
The Europeans did a study and found that they have several honeys in Europe that have the same effect as Manuka Honey. I bet if a similar study was done here in the states you would find the same. I have seen first hand how good honey is at stopping infections. I told my daughter to put some of my raw honey on a pad and cover a really infected burn on her arm. The next morning she showed it to me and all of the redness was gone.
Jim
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Offline Wombat2

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Re: 'Manuka' & 'Jelly Bush' Honey nothing more than a money grab?
« Reply #3 on: January 19, 2016, 06:33:06 am »
An old New Zealand Beek said Manuka honey was the unwanted honey - bad flavour that tainted any honey it was mixed with - then the " Manuka Institute" came along - funny how all the published "Reseach" papers come out of the Manuka Institute
David L

Offline SilentSkeptic

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Re: 'Manuka' & 'Jelly Bush' Honey nothing more than a money grab?
« Reply #4 on: January 19, 2016, 07:36:47 am »
Yeah. Although I dont blame local bee keepers who adopt this method. The government has made life so hard in Australia by letting overseas people the opportunity to apply for, and take, our jobs. I see they are telling kids to learn programming and STEM. What the poor aussie kids dont know, and are not being told, is that despite getting into a hard science, they will not be assured employment or stability despite sacrificing their sanity to get a University place in those fields. Why? Because Chinese and Indian scientists and engineers are a dime a dozen. There is no way Australia will survive the way we are going.

Thats why I, in my late 20s, have realized it will be a smarter move for me to jump on this bandwawgon, rather than be at the mercy to greedy Australian companies. If the Chinese are stupid enough to buy into every gimmick than that is not my problem. After seeing the way that our gov allows the Chinese to operate a black market in Australian goods, I have lost all respect and any feeling of patriotism I had for my country or culture.

The Australian gov did studies that found jelly bush was a stronger anti microbial than Manuka, but anyone who thinks our gov is any different to that of the Chinese communists, when it comes to transparency or genuine concern, is deluding themselves. Australia is nothing more than an overflow area for the migrant masses. We have sold our souls and lost our humanity in the process.

This country is a joke, we dont care for our own. We should be putting Australians first when it comes to these jobs.
"I'm not naive, this is not an isolated move by a senile judge in New York. Because vultures look a lot like the eagles of empires." Cristina Kirchner

Offline deknow

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Re: 'Manuka' & 'Jelly Bush' Honey nothing more than a money grab?
« Reply #5 on: January 19, 2016, 10:52:31 am »
....seems like the perfect opportunity to start a business and employ people.

Online Michael Bush

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Re: 'Manuka' & 'Jelly Bush' Honey nothing more than a money grab?
« Reply #6 on: January 19, 2016, 01:10:04 pm »
There is an active ingredient in any of the Manuka honeys (including Jellybush) that is an anti-microbial, in addition to the usual effects of honey which already make it an antimicrobial.  The Australian and New Zealand beekeepers used to feed the Manuka honey to the hogs because the taste is so strong.  Someone got smart and paid for some research to back up the idea of it as a folk remedy and now it sells for an outrageous amount.
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Offline SilentSkeptic

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Re: 'Manuka' & 'Jelly Bush' Honey nothing more than a money grab?
« Reply #7 on: January 19, 2016, 01:58:49 pm »
I was looking up at setting up a small scale operation and selling honey to make money, but problem is all the rules and regulations here in Australia make doing that impossible in the short term.

I'm lost. Anyway thanks for the advice.

« Last Edit: January 21, 2016, 06:13:36 am by SilentSkeptic »
"I'm not naive, this is not an isolated move by a senile judge in New York. Because vultures look a lot like the eagles of empires." Cristina Kirchner

Offline PhilK

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Re: 'Manuka' & 'Jelly Bush' Honey nothing more than a money grab?
« Reply #8 on: January 21, 2016, 07:28:44 pm »
Whereabouts in Australia are you? Here in QLD you just need to get a commercial food licence (around $750 a quarter), have a council inspected kitchen (you can hire professional kitchens for about $20/hr), and get public liability insurance (I think it's $99 for 3 years when I checked).

Far from impossible, though the outlay for all the equipment plus regulatory costs is significant. Might be different wherever you are though!

Offline BeeMaster2

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Re: 'Manuka' & 'Jelly Bush' Honey nothing more than a money grab?
« Reply #9 on: January 22, 2016, 12:55:13 pm »
Silent,
Just move to FL. All you need to do is add a sticker to your jars that say it was produced under cottage industry rules. You might look up our rules and see if the might bee able to have the same rules apply for your country.
Jim
Democracy is 2 wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote.
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Offline amun-ra

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Re: 'Manuka' & 'Jelly Bush' Honey nothing more than a money grab?
« Reply #10 on: January 24, 2016, 05:28:27 pm »
Silent  you must bee in the other Queensland just put honey in jars and sell at the sunday markets its a hobby no licence required do it in your kitchen same as you produce all your meals keep it clean and get the best price for your honey don't undersell 
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Offline Wombat2

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Re: 'Manuka' & 'Jelly Bush' Honey nothing more than a money grab?
« Reply #11 on: January 24, 2016, 06:30:24 pm »
Take a walk around the local weekend markets - you will see so many people selling honey without labels - no weight listed, no nutritional information, no packer details (name address minimum) recycled jam jars of all shapes and sizes. If and when an inspection is carried out by the couple of food inspectors who cover the whole of Queensland working an overtime weekend shift they will overlook your neat clean properly packed and labeled honey in tamper proof jars even if you don't have a licence. Far too many people doing the wrong thing for them to be bothered with the "better" looking stuff.

I tried to report the problem once - got pushed from council to State Health to Weights and Measures back to Council again. Found out it was the realm of Consumer Protection to enforce - Don't get your nickers in a twist - do the right thing by your conscience and the industry you represent. Make it all look correct and above board. It is easier to apologize than ask permission.
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Offline Steampunked

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Re: 'Manuka' & 'Jelly Bush' Honey nothing more than a money grab?
« Reply #12 on: January 24, 2016, 07:46:46 pm »
I think manuka oils are the same as teatree oils?  I can't say I like the taste at all, though the smell is wonderful.  It's very strongly antibacterial and antifungal and makes up a high proportion of 'safe' medicines for fish - it's used also as an anti-parasitic there.

Not sure what the point would be in consuming it, as most of the health benefits for humans are in external application, where it helps with dandruff, etc.
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Offline yantabulla

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Re: 'Manuka' & 'Jelly Bush' Honey nothing more than a money grab?
« Reply #13 on: January 25, 2016, 01:51:10 am »
Silent Skeptic, you really are a cup half empty person.  Like Wombat2 says get on with it.   Otherwise stop moaning.
« Last Edit: January 25, 2016, 03:43:28 am by yantabulla »

Offline Richard M

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Re: 'Manuka' & 'Jelly Bush' Honey nothing more than a money grab?
« Reply #14 on: February 27, 2016, 07:36:59 pm »
I think manuka oils are the same as teatree oils?  I can't say I like the taste at all, though the smell is wonderful.  It's very strongly antibacterial and antifungal and makes up a high proportion of 'safe' medicines for fish - it's used also as an anti-parasitic there.

Not sure what the point would be in consuming it, as most of the health benefits for humans are in external application, where it helps with dandruff, etc.

It's the same plant, Leptospermum scoparium - common or garden tea tree, grows on any bit of scrubby bushland here in Tas. The NZ flora is thought to have originally evolved in Australia.

The New Zealanders seem to be pretty talented in making everyone think something's uniquely New Zealand in origin - Kiwi fruit are a classic example, originally from China but after a spindoctor campaign in the 60s, you wouldn't know it now.
 

Offline amun-ra

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Re: 'Manuka' & 'Jelly Bush' Honey nothing more than a money grab?
« Reply #15 on: April 02, 2016, 10:03:35 am »
woolies has a 250 gram jar of capilano manuka for $12.00 per hundered grams wow
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Offline omnimirage

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Re: 'Manuka' & 'Jelly Bush' Honey nothing more than a money grab?
« Reply #16 on: May 07, 2016, 06:48:32 am »
It is interesting to see how much of a hype is done over it, when the science regarding it is inconclusive. It's shocking how expensive it goes for. I'd like to see if I could set up some hives at some Manuka sites, but I can't find any locations for such.

I'm finding it easy to do beekeeping in the short run. Distributing at small markets as a hobbyist translates to me having very little interference from the government.

Offline b2bnz

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Re: 'Manuka' & 'Jelly Bush' Honey nothing more than a money grab?
« Reply #17 on: May 10, 2016, 12:46:21 am »
Was down in Queenstown, South Island, New Zealand over January of this year and happened to walk into the tourist gift shop at the airport. One of the bigger NZ  honey companies, Manuka Health, selling 500 gms Manuka Honey MGO 550 for NZ$215.00 per bottle.

Offline omnimirage

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Re: 'Manuka' & 'Jelly Bush' Honey nothing more than a money grab?
« Reply #18 on: May 10, 2016, 08:08:28 am »
I just saw it at my local supermarkets. It was going for $26 a kilo in these small containers.

Offline PhilK

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Re: 'Manuka' & 'Jelly Bush' Honey nothing more than a money grab?
« Reply #19 on: May 10, 2016, 07:46:35 pm »
I sell my regular honey for about $43 per kg so it doesn't seem that bad to me!

Offline omnimirage

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Re: 'Manuka' & 'Jelly Bush' Honey nothing more than a money grab?
« Reply #20 on: May 10, 2016, 09:25:08 pm »
How can you possibly sell it for that much? That's absurdly high.

Offline Wombat2

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Re: 'Manuka' & 'Jelly Bush' Honey nothing more than a money grab?
« Reply #21 on: May 11, 2016, 04:37:07 am »
I sell my regular honey for about $43 per kg so it doesn't seem that bad to me!

 :shocked: - I just got knocked back from a local retailerl I was looking to carry my honey - "na ya too dear at $12/kg"
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Offline omnimirage

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Re: 'Manuka' & 'Jelly Bush' Honey nothing more than a money grab?
« Reply #22 on: May 11, 2016, 07:15:35 am »
I look to not sell mine for much more than $10 a kilo, since that's how much my competitors sell it for.

Offline PhilK

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Re: 'Manuka' & 'Jelly Bush' Honey nothing more than a money grab?
« Reply #23 on: May 16, 2016, 01:46:41 am »
How can you possibly sell it for that much? That's absurdly high.
Adding perceived value to a product. We have very nice 280g jars, a cool label, and OK marketing if I do say so myself. Sell them for $12 a jar or $20 for two.

Mostly selling to people we know who don't mind helping us out a bit, but also sold out at our local markets when we went down there last time.

Offline deknow

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Re: 'Manuka' & 'Jelly Bush' Honey nothing more than a money grab?
« Reply #24 on: May 16, 2016, 08:39:57 am »
It's a bit more than 'paid for some research', it is a marketing campaign boosted by 'research'.

When you use a standard test but come up with a trademarked name for the test, then no one else can can perform the standard test and compare it to the results of the trademarked test.

If I sold water and trademarked a unit of measurement of volume (call it a 'glompf'), I can advertise that my waterbotitle has 10 more 'glompfs' then the competition.  ....the value of the claim is based on what a glompf is....a cc or a litre. 

There is an active ingredient in any of the Manuka honeys (including Jellybush) that is an anti-microbial, in addition to the usual effects of honey which already make it an antimicrobial.  The Australian and New Zealand beekeepers used to feed the Manuka honey to the hogs because the taste is so strong.  Someone got smart and paid for some research to back up the idea of it as a folk remedy and now it sells for an outrageous amount.

Offline omnimirage

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Re: 'Manuka' & 'Jelly Bush' Honey nothing more than a money grab?
« Reply #25 on: May 19, 2016, 08:59:41 am »
Is that truly how it works? If that's the case, it's possibly not more effective than regular honey, am I mistaken?

Online Michael Bush

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Re: 'Manuka' & 'Jelly Bush' Honey nothing more than a money grab?
« Reply #26 on: May 19, 2016, 10:10:18 am »
>If that's the case, it's possibly not more effective than regular honey, am I mistaken?

I think they have an antibacterial "ingredient" that is naturally in the Manuka that is more effective, per se.  But honey is already antibacterial.  It's like antibacterial soap.  All soap is somewhat antibacterial.  But antibacterial soap has some added ingredient (probably one that will give you cancer, at least that is the history of all the previous antibacterial soaps...) that specifically kills bacteria.  Does that mean you hands will be cleaner?  Maybe.  Maybe not.
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Offline Willy

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Re: 'Manuka' & 'Jelly Bush' Honey nothing more than a money grab?
« Reply #27 on: May 20, 2016, 07:36:19 am »
I think manuka oils are the same as teatree oils?  I can't say I like the taste at all, though the smell is wonderful.  It's very strongly antibacterial and antifungal and makes up a high proportion of 'safe' medicines for fish - it's used also as an anti-parasitic there.

Not sure what the point would be in consuming it, as most of the health benefits for humans are in external application, where it helps with dandruff, etc.

It's the same plant, Leptospermum scoparium - common or garden tea tree, grows on any bit of scrubby bushland here in Tas. The NZ flora is thought to have originally evolved in Australia.

The New Zealanders seem to be pretty talented in making everyone think something's uniquely New Zealand in origin - Kiwi fruit are a classic example, originally from China but after a spindoctor campaign in the 60s, you wouldn't know it now.

Correct.

Leptospermum scoparium is Manuka and Leptospermum polygalofolium is the jelly bush which has similar properties to Manuka and is more widely spread up the east coast of Australia.

Capilano wouldn't  buy out the largest producer of Jelly bush honey in australia unless they thought it had a strong future.

willy