BEEKEEPING LEARNING CENTER > NATURAL & ORGANIC BEEKEEPING METHODS
Planning for year two
charentejohn:
My mistake for posting this, self inflicted as we say. I will report on the mites / not mites when I have a look.
As this is the (near TF but not TF, I know) section I expected no where were your chemicals then replies. Come on now, you know I am TF and both hives mirrored each other just one died. Just as likely to be the chemical drizzle use before the came to me damaged one queen but no the other. Give me a few days and I will post details and photos.
Ben Framed:
--- Quote from: charentejohn on February 22, 2021, 03:06:20 pm ---My mistake for posting this, self inflicted as we say. I will report on the mites / not mites when I have a look.
As this is the (near TF but not TF, I know) section I expected no where were your chemicals then replies. Come on now, you know I am TF and both hives mirrored each other just one died. Just as likely to be the chemical drizzle use before the came to me damaged one queen but no the other. Give me a few days and I will post details and photos.
--- End quote ---
Why would it be self inflicted being honest? You were honest about losing your hive. You mentioned a theory of a failing queen. I responded another suspect, possible mites as per the in depth of discussions from your past post concerning mites and your hives. Naturally mite infestation will be suspect number one. As far as that goes it could have been anything else since you have not inspected. Good luck.
The15thMember:
--- Quote from: Ben Framed on February 22, 2021, 03:28:34 pm ---
--- Quote from: charentejohn on February 22, 2021, 03:06:20 pm ---My mistake for posting this, self inflicted as we say. I will report on the mites / not mites when I have a look.
--- End quote ---
Why would it be self inflicted being honest? You were honest about losing your hive.
--- End quote ---
I agree. Beekeeping is hard, it happens. But the assumption is that you are posting so people can share their own opinions and try to help you out.
--- Quote from: charentejohn on February 22, 2021, 03:06:20 pm --- Come on now, you know I am TF and both hives mirrored each other just one died. Just as likely to be the chemical drizzle use before the came to me damaged one queen but no the other. Give me a few days and I will post details and photos.
--- End quote ---
Bee colonies are like macroorganisms, each is an individual. Only one dying gives no indication as to why the hive died. I had one robust colony die of cold exposure this year, and all my colonies are under seemingly the exact same conditions. Each hive is different, and can respond to any stressor in a different way.
--- Quote from: Ben Framed on February 22, 2021, 03:28:34 pm --- As far as that goes it could have been anything else since you have not inspected.
--- End quote ---
This is the struggle with Warres. Without inspecting, you don't know what's going on until it's too late. And that's a choice you've made, John, and we respect that, but your options when things go wrong with a hive are necessarily limited having made that choice.
charentejohn:
The self inflicted bit was that I was reluctant to post as it can lead to some treatment comments when I am looking for info on the actual cause. I asked on a Warre group and seems most likely queen failure in autumn, too late for emergency queen. Some varroa faeces I think but then small to dying colony anyway. Both hives had virtually the same varroa drop but this one struggled. Seems no bad diseases, dead bees no deformed wings etc. just dead queen and cold finally finishing the stragglers. A shame but such is bee life. I will harvest what I can as honey is ok. The frames are dadant from an adapter, I can use some of the old comb to attract new swarm hopefully - https://1drv.ms/u/s!AgZCpYNgfmp7hk5wqF1VCRd0XzyV?e=J3fbCK
On Warre inspections it isn't that tricky as the boxes are small. David Heaf's trick is to slide them half out or tilt them back to look from underneath, no disturbance pulling frames etc. Small area (1/2 dadant) so easy to see up into the space. https://www.thewarrestore.com/warre-hive-quick-check
I don't want to mess with them and so no need to see exactly what they are doing inside. If they die out in future I can dismantle and inspect but otherwise no intrusions. In this case queen failure would mean someone may buy a new queen but I don't want to do that. Better to let them do what they think is best, any problems I can clean up and await the arrival of a swarm. If commercial then a new queen would mean you can make use of the workers and ensure the hive continues, not what I do so I prefer a new lot to take over hopefully with more success.
Edited to add this link to varroa based dead out whch I found helpful https://beekeepingforum.co.uk/threads/friends-lost-colony-pictures.49617/
The15thMember:
Great pictures, John. I'm noticing 3 things. 1) Is that big white fuzzy spot mold? If so, that indicates to me this hive has been dead for a while. 2) I'm definitely seeing some varroa frass in the brood cells. It's always hard to tell on pictures how much exactly is there, with the variable focus of the camera, but definitely some varroa pressure in this hive. 3) That queen cell in the middle of that honey/pollen frame seems weird to me. That queen cell may be older, since they've backfilled the nest around it. Actual question: Have your bees been foraging over the winter at all? Probably unanswerable questions: It looks like they attempted to raise a queen at some point, but the question is when and why? When did they construct that queen cell, and was it ever capped? Was it a late supersedure and the new queen didn't mate well? If so, why did they attempt a supersedure? Was the previous queen of poor quality, or were they under some sort of stress that they attempted to fix by rearing a new queen? Based on the lack of bees in the hive, it doesn't seem like it was starvation or cold-related, so my guess would be it was either some sort of queen issue, varroa issue, or perhaps a combination of both. Hopefully others will offer their opinions as well.
You may want to start a new thread about evaluating the deadout, John, just because many people may not see the conversation under this thread title.
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