Did my First OAV Treatment Today

[BeeMaster2]

How many watts does the heating element draw? Divide watts by 12 (volts) and you know how much current the transformer has to be able to handle. Add 20 percent due to the constant load of the heater. If the heating element uses 120 watts you need a transformer and rectifier that can handle 12 amps. I have a 10 amp power supply, it weighs almost as much as a car battery. You will also need 12 gauge wire on the secondary side, 14 gauge could handle it but for this setup, you probably want a long cord to reach all of your hives so use 12 gauge wire.
Jim

[Beeboy01]

I remember that formula, it's the watts, voltage, amp triangle, haven't had to use it in years. Thanks.

[Beeboy01]

Here's an update, been doing daily mite drop counts on hive 3 and am still averaging around 140 mites a day over the last week, just got tired of posting the count every day. During the last week I'm seeing some deformed winged bees around the hive, today spotted 5 or 6 around the base of the hive. 
  Gave hive 3 a quick inspection yesterday before hitting it with the fourth OAV treatment. The hive has a good brood pattern, has a lot of bees and is bringing in pollen and nectar. All in all the hive seems healthy except for the mite infestation, it even has two shallows of honey on which I have to remove before each treatment. 
   I'm planning to continue the weekly OAV treatments. After about 21 days I'm only just getting into the third life cycle of the mites and will probably need to run OAV treatments another two weeks or more for complete control depending on the daily mite drop. I can also switch to hard chemical treatment but want to run with OAV just to see how effective it really is for a mite infested hive.
  One interesting thing I"ve noticed is that none of the other hives in the yard have shown any mite problems. Even #2 which is only 4 feet away from #3 didn't have a high mite drop when treated which makes me wonder about the theory that bee drift causes mite problems in other hives in a yard.
  I'll keep updating as needed.

09/10/18  130 mites

09/11/18  210 mites      The total so far from hive 3 is 3510 mites.

09/12/18  120 mites

09/13/18  85 mites
     
 

[Beeboy01]

Well here's something to chew on, I plotted the mite drop over time on some graph paper. I have a full 30 days of daily counts which covers 5 OAV treatments given every 7 days as recommended by most equipment manufacturers .
  Guess what IT DOESN"T LOOK LIKE IT IS WORKING! or not as expected.
  My expected results were to see a steady large decline in both the peaks and valleys over the course of treatments. Instead the mite drop has pretty much leveled off with only a 10 to 15% reduction between treatments which is a lot less than I was lead to believe would occur. 

  Thoughts so far about this information. I'm treating every 7 days instead of a shorter time between treatments. Even at a 7 day interval the mite knock down is impressive.
  I'm looking at the low points on the graph and think that's where I'm getting the mites moving between the brood cells which is maintaining the population.
  The color of the mites on the sticky board has gone from mainly dark brown to almost 50% colored like coffee with cream, a light brown color which indicates that the treatments are  slowly reducing the overall age of the mites in the hive. I'm not sure at what age the mites breed  but I'm hoping I'm killing off the mature mites and maybe reducing the breeders. I'm also spotting a few white immature mites which were not present at the beginning phase of the treatments.
  I've been treating the the hive for 30 days which is getting into the third life cycle of the mites but with just over only two bee life cycles complete I expect mites are still on the brood and will continue to emerge.
 
Since I have this much time already invested in this experiment and hive 3 is still strong I'm planning to shorten the interval down to 4 days between the OAV treatments. 
  If the information on the graph runs true I'm expecting to see a second high spike where the low points are currently present. I'm trying to time the treatments to hit the emergent mites before they have a chance to move into another brood cell.
  Apparently the majority of residue left from the OAV treatment seems to only be lasting 2-3 days which is giving the mites time to continue their life cycle without too much interruption.
  Any thoughts will be appreciated.
Ed

 
 

[blackforest beekeeper]

 I got a gismo for OAV. The manufacturer says to treat every 4 days. For about 4 times. I did as long as i saw mites coming down.
I didn`t use it that much yet but I would think a week is long in between. Too long even vor formic acid.
What kind of gizmo are You using?
I got this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-HZ6u8Bkoew
but heatet with gas and its got a dispenser for the oxalic tablets.

maybe your vapors aren`t getting everywhere they should?

[Beeboy01]

I'm using a 12 volt home built wand that fits under the screened bottom board. There's a picture of it somewhere on this thread. It takes about 3 1/2 minutes to vaporize the oxalic acid. I'm thinking about treating from the top of the hive to get the vapors down inside the hive instead of coming up from the bottom. That gizmo you have is real cool, looks like it works great.
  Seven days apparently is too long a time between treatments. I'm going to treat every four days from now on. It's the first time I've used OAV and I'm still learning what works and what doesn't.
  I only have one hive with a mite infestation, all the others are clean when treated. The problem hive came from a local commercial beekeeper and had a mite problem last year. I used Apivar on it with good results over the winter but needed a treatment method safe to use during the honey flow which is why I decided to use OAV.
  A friend bought a hive from the same supplier the same time I bought mine but didn't treat. He lost the hive in about eight months which is when I had major problems in my hive. 
 
   

[Ben Framed]

Beeboy01 Keep up the good work. Your treatment/experiment is very interesting and educational as well!! Thanks for posting... Phillip Hall

[blackforest beekeeper]

I'm using a 12 volt home built wand that fits under the screened bottom board. There's a picture of it somewhere on this thread. It takes about 3 1/2 minutes to vaporize the oxalic acid. I'm thinking about treating from the top of the hive to get the vapors down inside the hive instead of coming up from the bottom. That gizmo you have is real cool, looks like it works great.
  Seven days apparently is too long a time between treatments. I'm going to treat every four days from now on. It's the first time I've used OAV and I'm still learning what works and what doesn't.
  I only have one hive with a mite infestation, all the others are clean when treated. The problem hive came from a local commercial beekeeper and had a mite problem last year. I used Apivar on it with good results over the winter but needed a treatment method safe to use during the honey flow which is why I decided to use OAV.
  A friend bought a hive from the same supplier the same time I bought mine but didn't treat. He lost the hive in about eight months which is when I had major problems in my hive. 
 
 

Last year I let a bunch of hives go without a formic acid treatment into October, which in the Black Forest is a time when they hardly take feed any more. I milked out the mites with that gizmo. In winter I treated again (OAV twice). The results are very good, esp. for the winter-treatment. I have hardly any mites this year. Of course in general many people tell of little mites. But some have them like they always do. I have hives where the fall of mites after a treatment is hardly countable.
I don`t like the formic acid much as it kills a lot of brood - sometimes.

Treating during honey-flow. I didn`t dare that. It is illegal in Germany, too. Also, our honey is quite closley supervised, as it is certified organic. I guess I`d end the honey-season if I had to treat for mites.
Of course there is always the chance to remove all brood if it is very hard, which I do anyway at the end of season. If You got an infested hive and it`s about really time to do something, take out all brood-frames (sealed anyway) and treat twice OAV with three days or so apart (no sealed brood should be there). This will handle the problem for good.

[blackforest beekeeper]

I just reread Your post. OAV from under the screen....may not work to well if you got multiple-story-hives. if bees sit tight even worse, I presume?
maybe try from above with an empty super (four boards nailed together...) with a hole in it or so. bees ought to be sortof powdered after.

[Beeboy01]

It's a little different here, with OAV we are allowed to pull the honey supers, treat and then replace the supers the same day which is what I've been doing. All the hard treatments have to be performed after the honey supers have been removed for the year.
  I'm just a hobby beekeeper and can fly under the treatment radar if I want but won't do it since most of my honey goes locally to friends or is used by me. Also being a hobby beekeeper I have the time to study and document how the OAV treatments work on an infested hive.
   Even though I'm only treating one hive it is pretty much a standard representation of the typical hive with a mite infestation. I'm hoping any information I can pass on will be helpful. Knowledge is power and needs to be passed on in the war with the mites.
   

[Beeboy01]

Think I'm on the right tract by going to a 4 day treatment plan. Hit the hive yesterday with it's first four day treatment and had a major mite drop of 280 over the first 24 hours. Got a major spike where the valley always occurs. Almost 40% were colored light brown so it looks like I'm hitting the emergent mites in a big way. Won't have enough data points for the graph for about a week but will post the mite drop counts daily.
 
  It's wearing thin doing daily counts for over a month but knocking the mites out of the hive is getting personal if you get my drift.   
Updates to follow.

  Second day after the treatment, had a mite drop of 240 which is still high with a lot of light brown mites on the sticky board. Starting to think the numbers really support treating every four days, even three days apart wouldn't be excessive for a heavily infested hive. Going to stay with a four day treatment plan for now.

Third day mite drop of 140

Fourth day mite drop of 125

      Second four day OAV treatment

First day mite drop of 185



   

[Beeboy01]

Here's a follow up, The first day drop of 185 was followed by day two drop of 100, day three drop of 40, and day four drop of 20.

I hit the hive with the fourth four day OAV treatment today. So far the mite drop numbers are promising if you look at the mite drop as a indication of the current mite population in the hive.

I'll add onto the graph and post it when I get a few more data points. I'm interested in the mite drop over the next few days which will show if a four day treatment plan actually works.

Spent part of the day pulling and extracting 5 gallons of honey in 95 degree weather. Hoping it will be the last extraction for the year.

[Ben Framed]

I'll add onto the graph and post it when I get a few more data points. I'm interested in the mite drop over the next few days which will show if a four day treatment plan actually works.

Spent part of the day pulling and extracting 5 gallons of honey in 95 degree w     Hoping it will be the last extraction for the year.

Good job on the stats!! Yes sir please keep it up and us informed. Poor beeboy01 he's making more honey than  he knows what to do with!! Hee hee 😊😁 Congratulations on your honey production!

[Beeboy01]

Five gallons will carry me into next year for home use and the occasional mead brewing, working on a bottle right now:). Think I've totaled 14 gallons for the year out of two hives which is helping to pay for the hobby. Spent a lot of beehive resources expanding the yard to five hives and didn't get a really big honey crop this year which is what I expected.
  Concentrating on the mites has taken priority over the second half of the summer once the yard was up and running.
I'm hoping that the counts for the next two or three days will really show if a four day OAV treatment is the way to go for mite control or at least for my problem hive.
  I took the data over to my local bee club this week and pretty much got shot down by the club's president. Oh well, I learned my lesson.

Updates to come. 
   

[Ben Framed]

I took the data over to my local bee club this week and pretty much got shot down by the club's president. Oh well, I learned my lesson.

Updates to come. 
 

I would recommend that you not take it to heart about you President.  Old Ideas and methods, though most of the time are good ideas and proven methods,  yet, doesn't always mean that they are the best ideas or methods. It is my opinion that we, should always be open minded enough to be receptive to new ideas and methods. As long as these methods are showing promise.  Is this not how mankind has reached the level scientificly that is has today?  Each learning more and sharing that knodlege, steady building on the knodlege of previous generations? It was nice of blackforest beekeeper to share his knodlege on the 4 day treatment plan that he uses. Your experiment seems like a good and a valuable one to me.  Pride can get in the way of learning if one allows. Data doesn't lie!  May I encourage you to keep up the good work!
Philllip Hall "Ben Framed"

[blackforest beekeeper]

 a scientist you got into mites for decades and also into OAV says it takes about 4 to 6 weeks to show the natural drop-down of mites again. which would be an indication as to how many mites are still going in the hive.
that is the crucial point: how many are left?
of course, waiting 6 weeks and then seeing, it`s still to bad, won`t help much. I guess.... that`s just the way it is.

One guy I know has a description of his OAV-plans in the net. in German, of course. I link it. Maybe there is some translation-tool? at least you will be able to read the intervalls and how many times he recommends.
https://www.hommel-blechtechnik.de/wirkung-auf-bienen-und-milben.html
just read: he recommends 5 treatments when the interval is 4 days. So: Go for it once more!

I am still experimenting with the block-treatments, too. Luckily, we had very little mites this year.

[blackforest beekeeper]

a scientist you got into mites for decades and also into OAV says it takes about 4 to 6 weeks to show the natural drop-down of mites again. which would be an indication as to how many mites are still going in the hive.
that is the crucial point: how many are left?
of course, waiting 6 weeks and then seeing, it`s still to bad, won`t help much. I guess.... that`s just the way it is.

One guy I know has a description of his OAV-plans in the net. in German, of course. I link it. Maybe there is some translation-tool? at least you will be able to read the intervalls and how many times he recommends.
https://www.hommel-blechtechnik.de/wirkung-auf-bienen-und-milben.html
just read: he recommends 5 treatments when the interval is 4 days. So: Go for it once more!

I am still experimenting with the block-treatments, too. Luckily, we had very little mites this year.

I contacted this scientist (retired). He says, OAV works best in chilly and wet conditions. Esp. when bees don`t fly the next couple hours. He does not recommend it for summer-treatments.
So we just got to try, right?
I would keep treating till fall-down of the mites is UNDER a critical level some days after the last treatment (4 days...) as if it WAS the natural fall-out.

[Beeboy01]

Blackforest Beekeeper, thanks for the article, it was informative and supports what I'm finding with my treatment schedule. One of the most important points made was that treating every 4 days allows the OAV to attack the mature female mites in the short time that they are vulnerable when moving between brood cells. I like the 6x3 block treatment plan proposed.
 
 The mite drop count a day after the fourth treatment was 120. With only three post treatment data points so far it is hard to calculate any trends but the peaks have been reduced by almost exactly 33% after each treatment.
  Doing the same calculation on the 7 day treatments had a reduction of only about 10% per treatment.
I'm not sure as to how much longer I'll need to treat the hive, at least 3 more then the law of diminishing returns will probably kick in. Looking for one or two days with no mites on the sticky board before stopping the treatments.
 
  I'm not too worried about the local bee club, most use some type of strips or the dribble method for mite control and they also have hive heaters available for the members which is what the president is promoting. 

[blackforest beekeeper]

what was the fallout per day BEFORE any treatment?

[Beeboy01]

Before starting the treatments I suddenly was getting a mite fall of 10 to 12 per day from the one hive. I was monitoring the hives weekly and when I spotted the increase in the mite drop went to a daily count for the hive . The hive was showing bees with DWV also. I should of done a sugar roll or alcohol wash before starting the treatments but didn't think of it. Getting a baseline would of been a big help.