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Author Topic: Why not regular fumings of oxalic?  (Read 20805 times)

Offline Acebird

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Re: Why not regular fumings of oxalic?
« Reply #120 on: May 31, 2016, 09:26:18 am »
I just do not understand the difference.

The difference is every animal you speak of is an individual that can be tested for the problem they are treated for.  Bees are a colony and not every bee in the colony is sick but there is no way to treat the sick ones and not treat the ones that are not sick.  Furthermore by treating you suppress their natural immune system from combating the disease on their own.  That makes the species weaker and weaker in the long run.

God forbid, if one member of your family gets cancer should every member of the family get treated with chemo, radiation and surgery.  What do you think the end result of that protocol would be over the long run?  How about lesser diseases; pneumonia, flues, allergies, general infections etc.?
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Offline CrazyTalk

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Re: Why not regular fumings of oxalic?
« Reply #121 on: May 31, 2016, 10:38:50 am »
Also, I am at odds with what is going on with this anti treatment attitude towards bees. But the same people that have this attitude would not say, hey, only my dogs that can resist flees should survive and all my dogs that get infested and overwhelmed shall die and that will be better for the survival of the species. Or, deny those injections for their cattle, horses, chickens and all their other animals, to keep them healthy and alive. I just do not understand the difference.

We do exactly this with our livestock.

I keep sheep and poultry - if I have to deworm a sheep more than once in its life, it gets culled. I only breed the animals that don't have parasite problems. If chickens, ducks, geese or turkey are frequently getting sick, I cull. This means I have better breeding animals, and better offspring. I haven't had any problem animals in years - the weak lines are gone.


There is a major difference in pets, and livestock. With a pet, you are trying to make that animal's quality of life as high as possible. With livestock (and bees are livestock) you are trying to make the population's quality of life as high as possible. With livestock, I'm concerned about multiple generations, and how my actions affect the quality of future generations. With my pets, I'm not - they're neutered or spayed.

Offline Jim134

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Re: Why not regular fumings of oxalic?
« Reply #122 on: May 31, 2016, 09:52:21 pm »
Also, I am at odds with what is going on with this anti treatment attitude towards bees. But the same people that have this attitude would not say, hey, only my dogs that can resist flees should survive and all my dogs that get infested and overwhelmed shall die and that will be better for the survival of the species. Or, deny those injections for their cattle, horses, chickens and all their other animals, to keep them healthy and alive. I just do not understand the difference.

I don't know if I am one that you are at odds with since I have never treated my bees(and don't plan on treating).  I can understand what you are saying but I disagree with some of it.  I the problem is not necessarily whether you treat or not. It is the overtreating or unnecessary treating that is the real problem.   

Why not regular fumings of oxalic?  That was the original question.  Would you regularly inject your cattle, horses, chickens and all your other animals even if they didn't need it?  Do you decide or do you have a vet make that decision?  I don't know many beeks that are as qualified as a vet.  Yet they are treating with chemicals that they know little or nothing about.  You could even go farther and say what about all the medications that us humans take all the time that is unnecessary.  Do you take an aspirin everyday because you might get a headache?

There was another post on here where a new beek was told by the beek that sold them their nuc that they needed to treat there nuc in a few weeks.  There is the problem.  The treatment of bees that may or may not need it.
  As a matter of fact I do take aspirin every day. According to the doctor's Direction. It is for severity of heart attacks someday you may understand.



           BEE HAPPY Jim 134  :smile:
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Offline Dallasbeek

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Re: Why not regular fumings of oxalic?
« Reply #123 on: May 31, 2016, 10:12:43 pm »
He must be young and invincible.  Hasn't yet had that talk with a cardiologist.
"Liberty lives in the hearts of men and women; when it dies there, no constitution, no laws, no court can save it." - Judge Learned Hand, 1944

Offline Jim134

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Re: Why not regular fumings of oxalic?
« Reply #124 on: May 31, 2016, 10:45:21 pm »
He must be young and invincible.  Hasn't yet had that talk with a cardiologist.
.
I definitely advise you to do this under doctor's advice.If you read the original post you see I said that.
Here are some guidelines that may help you .. along with your Physician's advice.. so you can make a educated choice about your treatment.

 http://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/heart-disease/in-depth/daily-aspirin-therapy/art-20046797

            BEE HAPPY Jim 134  :smile:
« Last Edit: June 01, 2016, 07:35:08 am by Jim 134 »
"Tell me and I'll forget,show me and I may  remember,involve me and I'll understand"
        Chinese Proverb

"The farmer is the only man in our economy who buys everything at retail, sells everything at wholesale, and pays the freight both ways."
 John F. Kennedy
Franklin County Beekeepers Association MA. http://www.franklinmabeekeepers.org/

Offline rookie2531

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Re: Why not regular fumings of oxalic?
« Reply #125 on: June 01, 2016, 06:02:34 am »
Not only asprin everyday, but we inject our children with prevention treatments also. So, this debate will always be here and never end, but there are contradictions in it.

Offline Jim134

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Re: Why not regular fumings of oxalic?
« Reply #126 on: June 01, 2016, 07:31:16 am »
Does not public drinking water municipality. Still do General treatments of fluoride in public drinking water? And also do spray for mosquitoes and other pests..


                BEE HAPPY Jim 134  :smile:
"Tell me and I'll forget,show me and I may  remember,involve me and I'll understand"
        Chinese Proverb

"The farmer is the only man in our economy who buys everything at retail, sells everything at wholesale, and pays the freight both ways."
 John F. Kennedy
Franklin County Beekeepers Association MA. http://www.franklinmabeekeepers.org/

Offline bwallace23350

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Re: Why not regular fumings of oxalic?
« Reply #127 on: June 01, 2016, 09:03:44 am »
Kurt Webster.......................
I read this guys stuff last night and between him and Mr. Bush I think they make a solid case for not treating and letting the bees adapt. I will probably pursue that route and let the chips fall where they may and when I lose hives, as I know I will, I will try to capture wild swarms. I know of a few hives that have been around for 3 plus years that must be throwing off swarms every year.

Offline Jim134

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Re: Why not regular fumings of oxalic?
« Reply #128 on: June 01, 2016, 12:42:24 pm »
Something that you might like to listen to. As far as I'm concerned Kurt Webster is Miles Ahead of every other treatment free beekeeping in the USA. He does sell Queens once in awhile. But I believe most of his list are 2 to 3 years waiting time. And yes I have bought some of his Queens in the past.
http://tfb.podbean.com/mobile/e/treatment-free-beekeeping-podcast-episode-32-kirk-in-vermont/


                   BEE HAPPY Jim 134 :)
"Tell me and I'll forget,show me and I may  remember,involve me and I'll understand"
        Chinese Proverb

"The farmer is the only man in our economy who buys everything at retail, sells everything at wholesale, and pays the freight both ways."
 John F. Kennedy
Franklin County Beekeepers Association MA. http://www.franklinmabeekeepers.org/

Offline bwallace23350

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Re: Why not regular fumings of oxalic?
« Reply #129 on: June 01, 2016, 01:37:49 pm »
Did they do well for you and would it be worth buying seeing how our climate is so different?

 

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