Latest science of bees in simple English.

[Van, Arkansas, USA]

Scientists were attempting some rather complicated studies on honey bees and eliminating varroa.  The scientist were feeding genetic material (knock out mRNA)to honey bees that the intention was to disrupt the varroa but no harm to the honeybee.  The hope was the bees eat the syrup containing the genetic material which would be passed onto varroa thus knocking out the varroa.

Well an amazing thing happen, 24 hours later after the bees were fed the syrup, all the mites are dead, yet the honey bees were fine.  Now we get to the interesting part.  The genetic material fed to the bees must be stabilized as the compound is a sensitive chemical.  So salts are added to stabilize the genetic material.  In this case lithium chloride was used.  As a control to the experiment, just lithium chlorine was used without any genetic compounds.  So both experiments utilizing lithium chloride killed the mites.

So the scientists directed their attention to several lithium products, one being lithium citrate due to low cost and availability.  Yep, you guessed it, lithium citrate worked, killed every mite with no dectable harm to the bees.

This is brand new research, a lot of work has to be done: is there harm to the queen, eggs, larva...honey,,,,, we don?t know.  This work will take years, but one day we may simply sprinkle an inexpensive powder on the frames and say goodbye to Varroa.

If you made the connection between lithium and batteries, your correct also lithium in high quantities (compared to amounts required to kill mites) is used to treat manic depressive individuals.

Of course this product is not legal for treatment of bees as little information is available.  This info is hot off the press but first impression is very encouraging.  More research is currently under way and I will keep you informed.
Blessings

[Van, Arkansas, USA]

Credit to Sir Lil John who directed me to the research.  Thanks, Buddy.
Blessings

[BeeMaster2]

Good post. Thanks Van.
Jim

[little john]

Just want to add to Van's post that it's well-known that Lithium Carbonate has been used during the last 50 years in the treatment of manic-depression, and for some reason this is being seen by a few beekeepers as being a negative feature.

In this context I think it might be useful to have some kind of understanding of what is meant by 'manic-depression'.  In severe cases, a person can be so 'high' as to not have any concern for their own well-being, such that they may give all their money and possessions away, walk into a stream of traffic with impunity, stop eating, and so on, until they become completely exhausted and collapse.  For no obvious reason, a person suffering from such an extreme condition may then plunge into a state of depression.  By 'depression' I do not mean severely unhappy or melancholic - but rather their nervous system becomes so depressed (biochemically speaking) that even bodily movement becomes impossible - so we may even be talking in terms of total bodily inertia.  Such a state of extreme non-movement can result in the individual becoming constipated, urinating where they sit, unable to prepare food or fend for themselves in any way.

Unless such a person is helped by family or friends, or identified by the authorities as requiring treatment, there is a very real risk of death occurring in either phase of the illness.  In such extreme cases Lithium Carbonate is nothing less than a life-saver, and even in less severe cases it enables sufferers to hold down jobs from which they would otherwise most certainly be fired.  Therefore I would like to see Lithium Carbonate being viewed in a somewhat more positive light than many are doing at present (on other forums).

Despite Lithium Carbonate being used as a therapeutic agent for 50 years or more, no-one is 100% certain of it's mode of action.  I suspect that it either replaces a percentage of sodium operating within the 'sodium-pumps' which enable electrical (ionic) conduction to occur along the neuronal pathways, or possibly block neuro-transmitters at the synapses.  But however it works, for some people it helps to correct a most dangerous imbalance within their neuro-biology.

LJ

[Acebird]

Despite Lithium Carbonate being used as a therapeutic agent for 50 years or more, no-one is 100% certain of it's mode of action.

Interesting how it ever got to be used on humans.
Although I am not in favor of treating bee hives I like the direction the science is going in.  One question: If the compound is fed to the bees does that mean the mites living and breeding in brood are still safe?

[little john]

Hi Brian.
Many therapeutic agents fall into this catagory.  If something works, then maybe it isn't always necessary (although useful, sure) to know exactly how it works ?

Many currently used pills and potions were discovered by complete chance - Viagra probably being the most recent example of this.  But going back in time - anti-sepsis, anti-biotics, nylon, styrene, radiation - all discovered either by chance observation or complete accident.  I seem to remember that the first of Brother Adam's 'Buckfast' bees resulted from a chance mating.  All credit to the guy for spotting this and then progressively fine-tuning the generations which followed - but his legacy started-off as the result of a single chance event.

In attempting to answer your question - yes, any mites feeding on sealed brood when LiCl is first introduced would still be safe - until they emerged and started feeding on mature bees, of course.  Dunno about lithium being first applied whilst larvae are currently in the process of being fed ?  Would lithium uptake within the growing larvae then prove fatal to mites entering the cell just prior to capping - or would the presence of a lithium salt affect larval growth in some way ?  ... vital information which we'll only get to know, I guess, in the fullness of time.

One guy on another forum has already flagged-up a slight problem, and that is that Lithium salts are generic, and so unlike complex synthetic miticides there aren't any commercial fortunes to be made from these compounds, and thus there's no great financial stimulus to carry out further research - except by government departments perhaps, or PhD's eager to make a name for themselves.  Let's hope something really useful does eventually result from this accidental discovery.
LJ

[BeeMaster2]

If it is effective in killing mites but there is no money to be make from it then someone who is selling ineffective miticides will probably have it outlawed.
Jim

[Dallasbeek]

LJ,

Oxalic acid also is generic and we thought no company would undertake research to market it.

[little john]

LJ,

Oxalic acid also is generic and we thought no company would undertake research to market it.

Hi.
Exactly - 'research' in order to market it.  Not to understand how it works as a miticide - not to further the scientific knowledge-base - which is what I believe most people would understand as the purpose of research, but only to sell it.  Not quite the same thing.
LJ

[Dallasbeek]

LJ,

My unnderstanding is that to this day no one know how aspirin works.  They just know it works and accept it.  Bayer lost the right long ago to be the exclusive marketer of aspirin. 

[Acebird]

which is what I believe most people would understand as the purpose of research, but only to sell it.

I had the same thought as Dallas.
In the line of pharmaceuticals very little research is done without the purpose of selling something.
At the bare minimum though some research has to be done to quantify what would end up in honey.  A compound that is readily available that shows promise will be used legally or illegally.  OA is a prime example.

[bwallace23350]

Thanks

[Bush_84]

which is what I believe most people would understand as the purpose of research, but only to sell it.

I had the same thought as Dallas.
In the line of pharmaceuticals very little research is done without the purpose of selling something.
At the bare minimum though some research has to be done to quantify what would end up in honey.  A compound that is readily available that shows promise will be used legally or illegally.  OA is a prime example.

Ending up in honey is the key. Something fed in syrup certainly seems like it?s at least a potential issue. At face value it sounds bad to have lithium in honey. Even if it?s something that ends up studied significantly and shown safe it may still be a hard sell. We have to keep in mind people we are selling to. Sheeple latch onto words like raw, natural, organic, and other stupid buzzwords without knowing exactly what they are talking about. So imagine if the general public hears that I use lithium as a chemical treatment in my hives. People will immediately think of bipolar meds in their honey or batteries in their honey. No study in the world can convince those people it?s safe. Hell vaccines have changed the world in such a great way but people think they are evil. I just see this as being a red flag for some. I?m still curious though.

[Van, Arkansas, USA]

A lot of good points here.  A thought, lithium and sodium are closely related metals, at least the two metals both have a (single electron in their outer orbit.). Sorry for the science lingo, put another way, I would not be surprised if table salt, sodium chloride had same lethal effects on varroa.  The science is new, wide open territory, but very little grant money as mentioned earlier.
Blessings

[little john]

As I've briefly mentioned on one of my webpages, there are extremes to be found within the beekeeping population: there are those who see themselves as 'bee therapists' and lust after the latest treatment - chemical or otherwise - and then there are those at the other extreme who see chemistry as being the work of Satan.  Fortunately, many of us continue to occupy the middle ground, and see treatments as being a necessary corollary to modern beekeeping, and hope that one day it will be otherwise.

Reactions to the recent discovery that lithium chloride has shown itself to be an effective miticide has followed suite: a few reckless 'therapists' have apparently already started playing with this material, despite not knowing what the consequences of doing so might be - and those who flatly oppose any form of medical intervention are displaying their usual blinkered "Shock, Horror" response, without first examining the wider picture.

In another thread: https://beemaster.com/forum/index.php?topic=50904.0  I've posted a couple of quotes taken from dietary sources which reveal that lithium is to be found quite naturally - at trace levels - in a whole range of foodstuffs, and one of these may be significant.

Mustard - frequently sown as a 'break-crop' - is reported to contain high levels of lithium, some 3.4 mg kg-1 of dry matter - so (and I need to be careful with the following wording) it is highly likely that honey sourced exclusively or mainly from mustard may then contain high levels of lithium.

As always with such matters, it will now be necessary to wait and see what further research reveals - but do be aware whilst eating your meals today - that you will be consuming small quantities of lithium from that food - it's perfectly natural to consume such small quantities, and unless someone is hell-bent on consuming a jar of mustard-sourced honey each day, it's highly unlikely that even they will get to suffer any side-effects.  Chill ...
LJ

[gww]

lj

and unless someone is hell-bent on consuming a jar of mustard-sourced honey each day, it's highly unlikely that even they will get to suffer any side-effects.

And if they do this they will get the side bennifit of a nice dose of olixic acid thrown in for good measure.
Cheers
gww

[little john]

It's the same story, of course.  Any foodstuff containing Vitamin C will automatically produce oxalic acid as the Vit.C is metabolised.  If you drink Tea or Coffee - oxalic acid.  Do you like French Fries (chips) ? - oxalic acid.  Nuts ? - oxalic acid.

It's in a helluva lot of foods already, including honey.  The amount added by beekeepers (and then often at non-honey-gathering times) cannot be detected over and above the natural background levels.

Still, people who want to worry about such things will continue to worry, regardless.
LJ

[gww]

lj
Yep, I have been in a few of those discussions and saved several links to my favorites of studies to prove your point.  Good practice of my typing skills when it happens and I have the energy.
Cheers
gww