Winter Blues

[Bush_84]

Hello all. I am having a bleep winter and just want to vent a bit. I went into winter with 11 hives. I run 8 frame deep equipment and five frame deep Nucs. I had three production hives make it through last winter (three out of three). I wanted to expand my apiary so I bought two packages and put them in my 8 frame equipment. I bought two queens and made splits and put them into Nucs. I made a couple rounds of queens which was largely a learning experience. I took what queens I made and made some more Nucs. I also caught a swarm!  So I felt like it was all going well. I ended with four production hives (broke down one of the packages into Nucs in August, which was a huge mistake). I also had 7 Nucs. So I fed like hell, treated with apivar, and fumagillin.

I winter indoors. I have historically not lost a hive in my shed. So I felt confident and wanted to test the limits of what I could do. My late season Nucs from my package hive didn?t have enough time to build into a second nuc. Looking back I should have combined them, but again I hadn?t lost a hive in my shed and thought if I fed like crazy they?d be fine.

Then in mid December through mid January it got cold. Like the nice days got up to 0 f cold. Wind chills -60 f cold. I put a radiator heater in my shed this fall thinking it was safer than a space heater, which turned out to be another mistake. It couldn?t keep up and my shed got cold. It was still warmer than it was outside so I did t worry about it being in the teens.

So I lost all of my late Nucs in December (at least I assume I did).  Some starved and some just froze from small clusters. So I said to myself oh well lesson learned and put the old heater back in. Checked them a couple of weeks ago and I was down to six. Three production hives and three Nucs. Ok well that sucks but I?ll still be in good shape with six hives. I?ll just use the three strongest for honey and split the other three as much as I can. Then today I had some time and wanted to clean out the dead outs......down to three my two strongest production hives and that swarm I caught.

I feel absolutely defeated right now. After all that hard work I am no better off than I was last year and winter isn?t even half over. Historically most of my hives have perished in February or March. So it could get worse. Worst case scenario I lose 100%. Best case scenario my remaining three come out of winter crazy strong. Still even with my best case scenario I am back to buying bees, which I am trying like hell to get out of that rut. It was especially frustrating going through my other dead outs. My weak ones weren?t an issue as it was a known risk. All of my Nucs that built into two boxes still had ample honey stores and mountain camp sugar. Inches of dead bees in the bottom box. Not at all a small cluster issue. Box of honey overhead. No idea.  One had a little dysentery, but otherwise it?s a mystery to me.

So now onto what do I do about it. First off F packages in their A. I?m going to find some Nucs this year even if they aren?t even overwintered Nucs. I don?t care. This isn?t working. I?m also thinking about getting some carni queens. I used them once upon a time before I had a bee shed. They were fine but the end result was the same...dead bees.  I?m going to see if they winter better in my shed. I?ve learned how late I can make splits. I?ve learned my lesson about combining in fall if needed.

I?m also going to try the Ben harden method of queen rearing. I found this on Dave Cushman?s website. It?s interesting as I don?t have to take one of my hives out of commission to make queens  unlike others I?ve got limited bee resources. If I can rear queens in queen right hives I?ll be more efficient. This way I can also rear a very small amount of queens at once and not feel like I?m wasting my opportunity. I?m talking about one or two. If you have a big hive you can take a single frame of brood out and it won?t effect them at all. So if I?m always making one of two queens I can take a brood comb out of the hives that are strong and not significantly set them back. This way I should be able to hopefully make some more Nucs this summer while still getting some honey to fund next year.

I?m also going to start treating with oxalic acid. I?ve been hesitant in the past due to the heated element in a hive, time requirement per hive, and cost for equipment. The. I saw provap and had to have one until I saw the price tag. Then I learned how to make one. It?s mostly done. Just waiting on a couple of small parts and I?m good to go.

I?m also going to build a new bee shed. My current one needs to be painted and a new roof. It?s old and not worth the repairs. However I have three large out buildings and all have electricity. One of them has a corner that is 12x22 that is already walled in on three sides. I?m going to put up the last wall and improve the insulation. I?d have to run some electrical there and install some lights, but that?s not a huge issue. The box isn?t terribly far. Then I need to figure out a heater. I already have an unused ceiling fan that I will hang. We are also planning on getting new exterior doors so I can reuse one there. Right now I ventilate with dryer vents with inline fans. I?ll just stick with that.

Sorry it got long. Any suggestions or constructive criticism is welcome. Thanks and have a good day.

*Walks off to get some beer*

[Van, Arkansas, USA]

Bush, so sorry for the lost bees, however, I am in the same boat.  That cold front in December, actually 2 fronts back to back, in ARKANSAS we had a negative temps.  Yes, I lost hives, I was sick at the loss of bees.  Also last winter (2016) I also had 100% survival rate.  Then as you experience, whammy, high humidity and super cold air coming straight from Mn to AR. Normal for Ar, is dry northern air.

So I know how ya feel, bummer.  Keep going fella, 2017 will be a great year for both of us.  You will see, gonna be a great year.
Blessings

[Van, Arkansas, USA]

2018 good year, my typo.  Opppps

[Bush_84]

2018 good year, my typo.  Opppps

I hope so. I?m hoping some of my adjustments help. I am excited to try this new queen rearing technique. If I can get a new queen cell every couple weeks it would make it less impactful to make a new nuc. If I have three overwintered hives I could take a brood comb from each and make a strong nuc each time. With these dead outs I now have a crazy amount of extra comb laying around as well. So maybe I can still see some significant growth.

[minz]

I had knee surgery last year and 16-17 winter was down to 6 hives. I am at 16 or 17 now.  I did the Michael Palmer method of taking a double deep, breaking it apart for a short period to get the grafts started and then putting it back together. 10 days later put the cells in a queen castle (that is where the bees requirement comes in).  So I graft 15 cells, get 8 and that is more than I had frames of bees to mate them out. Not even certain what I am going to do with all the bees. If I make them to spring I will have to open another yard.
Never grafted before this year but would do the demaree swarm control. The bees would draw a supercedure cell above the super and I would move that one frame to the queen castle.
The problem always comes down to having bees for the mating nucs. This year I am going to try ? frames. 
You have overcome a major hurdle in having drawn foundation. That is ? the battle of getting back up and running.

[220]

Sorry about your loss, being in Aus I struggle to comprehend your winters.
I get a harsh winter by Australian standards with the temp dropping below freezing most nights and a bit of snow but nothing like yours. If we get more then a few days with max temps not much above freezing we tend to think we are in a mini ice age.

[Bush_84]

I had knee surgery last year and 16-17 winter was down to 6 hives. I am at 16 or 17 now.  I did the Michael Palmer method of taking a double deep, breaking it apart for a short period to get the grafts started and then putting it back together. 10 days later put the cells in a queen castle (that is where the bees requirement comes in).  So I graft 15 cells, get 8 and that is more than I had frames of bees to mate them out. Not even certain what I am going to do with all the bees. If I make them to spring I will have to open another yard.
Never grafted before this year but would do the demaree swarm control. The bees would draw a supercedure cell above the super and I would move that one frame to the queen castle.
The problem always comes down to having bees for the mating nucs. This year I am going to try ? frames. 
You have overcome a major hurdle in having drawn foundation. That is ? the battle of getting back up and running.

At this point I have a fair amount of drawn comb. I estimate I?ll have ~70 frames sitting in my workshop once I?ve gone through all the dead outs. That was one thing I struggled with last year. My splits all had to make a fair amount to get established. I suppose all that extra will give me a bit of a head start.

[little john]

First off - really sorry to hear about your losses.  Hopefully you'll come out of winter with sufficient bees to start a gradual recovery.

Looking at the positives: you've learned quite a lot from this snafu, and - to use modern jargon - you can now 'move forward' based on this experience with a new, improved shed and focus more on creating fewer, stronger nucs by starting them off much earlier in the season.  Any losses I experience (losses which are always 'disguised' by combining) are invariably those which were created very late in the season.

Good luck with your Provap clone - I've never seen 1.5" (38mm) copper tube over here, 28mm being the biggest - so I'll initially be making a clone from a steel tube and heater-band I already have, and then make the finished product from 1.5" stainless water pipe when I've ironed-out any bugs.

Re: your stored combs - have you taken any steps to protect them against wax-moth ?  In previous years I've treated mine - two dozen at a time - to a week in the freezer.  This year I'm doing the same, but plan on storing them afterwards in a sealed box along with a cup-full of glacial acetic acid.  There are other methods of course.  Drawn combs are too valuable to lose if you're in the nuc-raising business.

Best of luck for the coming season.
LJ

[Bush_84]

Hopefully that works. First time using google photo. Still waiting on the thermocouple, but I?ve tested the heater directly and it works. Stupid thing must be coming from China as it will be another week or two before it gets here and I?ve already been waiting a couple of weeks. As far as the size of the pipe out local menards had two foot sections of it. It wasn?t super cheap but I think in the end it?ll be worth it.

I?ve never worried about wax moth in the winter. Even in my bee shed it?s still a bit cold for them to be a hassle. So right now they are just stacked and sealed to keep the mice out. It?s spring that I?ll have to worry about but they?ll essentially be frozen until that time.

[Bush_84]

Sorry for the double post. I pressed the wrong button when I was trying to fix the links.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/xTqvMaXoiyIWh6Hs2

https://photos.app.goo.gl/7Ol5VCaI0bjZkZUj2

Hopefully that works. First time using google photo. Still waiting on the thermocouple, but I?ve tested the heater directly and it works. Stupid thing must be coming from China as it will be another week or two before it gets here and I?ve already been waiting a couple of weeks. As far as the size of the pipe out local menards had two foot sections of it. It wasn?t super cheap but I think in the end it?ll be worth it.

I?ve never worried about wax moth in the winter. Even in my bee shed it?s still a bit cold for them to be a hassle. So right now they are just stacked and sealed to keep the mice out. It?s spring that I?ll have to worry about but they?ll essentially be frozen until that time.
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