Do I need multiple foundation types?

[Devbee]

I am a new-bee, to say the least, about to order my first set of equipment.  I'm slowly figuring out what I need, but I am confused about the foundation I need to get.  If you have time, I appreciate your help.

My plan now is for 8-frame, medium supers for my hive.  I want to use small-cell foundation because of Michale Bush's recommendations,  and I was directed as to where to buy small-cell medium, so that is great.

However, I also want to make chunk or cut comb honey (assuming those mean the comb/wax stays with the honey) because it sounds easier than extracting.  I read a post Bush made a year back saying one should buy "thin surplus foundation, 7/11 from Walter T. Kelly and have the queen not like the cell size so she won't lay in it".

So does that mean that I should order two types of foundation, small-cell medium sized (of whatever sort, plastic, et. al.) which I will put in the lower supers (broodnest) and then this thin surplus foundation in the upper super, hoping they will fill this super with honey that I can then simply cut out and package?

And finally, do I have to reinforce this thin surplus foundation somehow?

Thanks a ton!

[amymcg]

Hi Devin,

The short answer here is Yes, you will need two types of foundation, one for the broodnest, the small cell you have chosen, and then you will need "thin surplus" type foundation for the comb honey.  It needs to be thin, because you're going to eat it, you don't want a big thick rib of wax in the middle of your comb honey.  You should load that foundation right before you are going to use it so it doesn't get a chance to sag.  You could help fasten it in place with a wax tube fastener. Basically a metal straw that you use to pour wax into the top groove to fasten the foundation to the frame.  You don't want to use wires or anything else that will get in your way when you want to cut the comb out of the frame.

[Kathyp]

one other thing....i have not used plastic foundation.  others have.  many have not liked it.  i believe cindi mentioned that.  do some research before you go with it.  it has the advantage of being durable, but if the bees won't work it, it's useless.  you can do a search here for opinions.

i think the comb honey, which i also intend to do this year, is probably a really good place to use the starter strips.  i intend to use the very thin foundation as a guide strip and then see how the comb comes out.  not only will i save money if this works, but will not have pressed wax in my comb.

[Michael Bush]

You don't have to use foundation at all.  You can use foundationless or starter strips.

If you DO use foundation, you don't want to use plasic where you want to get cut comb.  You also don't want dark thick foundation where you want cut comb.  The common thing to use is thin surplus.  Walter T. Keeley has it in 7/11 which the queen tends to not lay in.

But since the entire wax supply is contimiated with Amitraz, Fluvalinate and Cumaphos, I'd rather not have any foundation in my cut comb.

You don't want wires in the cut comb foundation because you can't easily cut them and you don't want to eat them.

[Devbee]

But since the entire wax supply is contimiated with Amitraz, Fluvalinate and Cumaphos, I'd rather not have any foundation in my cut comb.

So can I just stick my empty frames in the supers and then the bees will figure it out by themselves?  Or do I need to give them some kind of hint (attach something to the frame) to avoid getting burr comb everywhere?

Thanks again!

[Brian D. Bray]

A one inch wide starter strip is the "Start here" guide for foundationless frames.  Then if you use the cut comb method the starter strip is already there the next time around.  You also get uncontaminated wax.

[Michael Bush]

>Or do I need to give them some kind of hint

They need some kind of hint.  That can be as simple as a drawn comb on each side of them or a starter strip or a triangular guide or a sheet of foundation.

[wtiger]

Just a quick question.  Would a very thin wood strip coated with wax inserted into the top of a frame made for plastic foundation work?

[Michael Bush]

>Just a quick question.  Would a very thin wood strip coated with wax inserted into the top of a frame made for plastic foundation work?

Yes.  And if you skip the wax, it will be easier to glue in the top bar and will work every bit as well.