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Author Topic: The Feds and disasters  (Read 1941 times)

Offline Acebird

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Re: The Feds and disasters
« Reply #80 on: September 23, 2017, 08:41:09 am »
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Online kathyp

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Re: The Feds and disasters
« Reply #81 on: September 23, 2017, 02:18:48 pm »
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more jobs not less.

There is an overall increase in employment all over the country.  I am not sure I'd use Cuomo JRs website for reliable info though.   :wink:

I am not talking about overall employment.  I am talking about those at the bottom that this is supposed to help and pointing out the reasons it doesn't, and the reasons it may actually make it worse for many of them, never mind the cost to business which impacts all of us.
They are so divorced from their own interests that even when their own security and that of their children is finally compromised, they do not seek to avert the danger themselves but cross their arms and wait for the nation as a whole to come to their aid. Yet as utterly as they sacrifice their own free will, they are no fonder of obedience than anyone else. They submit, it is true, to the whims of a clerk, but no sooner is force removed than they are glad to defy the law as a defeated enemy. Thus one finds them ever wavering between servitude and license.
Alexis de Tocqueville

Offline Eric Bosworth

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Re: The Feds and disasters
« Reply #82 on: September 23, 2017, 04:43:04 pm »
https://labor.ny.gov/stats/pressreleases/pruistat.shtm
more jobs not less.
What kind of jobs? Probably not unskilled entry-level jobs. The problem is the people who need minimum wage the most are the same people who are hurt by it.
Here watch this video it explains it better than me.
www.learnliberty.org/videos/does-minimum-wage-hurt-workers/

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« Last Edit: September 25, 2017, 07:53:32 am by Eric Bosworth »
All political power comes from the barrel of a gun. The communist party must command all the guns; that way, no guns can ever be used to command the party. ---Mao Tse Tung

Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote. ---Benjamin Franklin

Offline tycrnp

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Re: The Feds and disasters
« Reply #83 on: September 23, 2017, 05:27:57 pm »
Too many "http's" in your link, but I found it.  Very interesting.

http://www.learnliberty.org/videos/does-minimum-wage-hurt-workers/

Offline Acebird

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Re: The Feds and disasters
« Reply #84 on: September 23, 2017, 06:29:16 pm »
Too many "http's" in your link, but I found it.  Very interesting.

http://www.learnliberty.org/videos/does-minimum-wage-hurt-workers/

This is make believe.  In a fast food business the items that you sell will go up in price because every fast food business is force to pay the same increase.  These businesses are local. The increase is just pasted on to the consumer.  What might happen is the consumer decreases the amount of times that they go for sit down dinners and actually increase the number of times they go for fast food.  Industry could be different especially if there is a different minimum wage between states.  I think we are talking federal though.
In an industrial situation though most people are making more then minimum or at least 6 months after hire they are making more than minimum.  Global pressure may affect whether the increase can be passed on to the consumer.  If it can't the company makes less or looks at automation.  And it is a proven fact that automation increases not only the number of jobs but the quality of the jobs.
One more thing, corporate america does not pay people based on performance unless the individual is on piece work.  They treat everyone the same just like a union.  Variations in pay are affected by longevity for the most part until the pay becomes much higher then entry level personnel in which case you are replaced typically before retirement.  In some cases minimum wage increases help with this problem not hinder.
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Offline Eric Bosworth

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Re: The Feds and disasters
« Reply #85 on: September 25, 2017, 08:23:40 am »
Acebird,

Where do I start? I guess I will start by thanking you for making my original point. While the total number of jobs may increase with automation there is a decrease in unskilled entry level jobs. The same jobs that poor uneducated unskilled people need. The people that minimum wage is there to help. From there I will go through and debunk your message point by point.

This is make believe.  In a fast food business the items that you sell will go up in price because every fast food business is force to pay the same increase.  These businesses are local. The increase is just pasted on to the consumer.  What might happen is the consumer decreases the amount of times that they go for sit down dinners and actually increase the number of times they go for fast food.

You are correct in that the cost is just transferred to the consumer. What you neglect to realize is that even if people start going to fast food places instead of sit down restaurants you just have a different set of unskilled workers effected. What about the minimum wage employees at the sit down place? Is it better for them to get laid off than the fast food worker? I personally find most fast food unappetizing so I would just stay home and not go out to eat at all. Humm... what happens when masses of people stay home because a burger costs to much as well as the sit down restaurants and everybody stays home?

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Industry could be different especially if there is a different minimum wage between states.  I think we are talking federal though.
When I was referring to Uncle Andy I was refering to the governor of New Yuck. That is not federal.
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In an industrial situation though most people are making more then minimum or at least 6 months after hire they are making more than minimum.  Global pressure may affect whether the increase can be passed on to the consumer.  If it can't the company makes less or looks at automation.  And it is a proven fact that automation increases not only the number of jobs but the quality of the jobs.
Wow... We agree on something... Thank you for proving my point. That proves the point that we don't need minimum wage because competition of labor creates higher wages anyway.
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One more thing, corporate america does not pay people based on performance unless the individual is on piece work.  They treat everyone the same just like a union.  Variations in pay are affected by longevity for the most part until the pay becomes much higher then entry level personnel in which case you are replaced typically before retirement.
Um... Not exactly but even if you are correct in that, did you ever think that experience makes a difference? Longevity = experience.
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  In some cases minimum wage increases help with this problem not hinder.
I am not sure how  minimum wage helps that. Increasing the minimum wage wipes out a pay scale. That is why where I work we laid people off when Uncle Andy and his liberal cronies bumped up the minimum wage in the state. Not only did we lay off a few people completely, we also made several employees 11 months instead of 12.
All political power comes from the barrel of a gun. The communist party must command all the guns; that way, no guns can ever be used to command the party. ---Mao Tse Tung

Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote. ---Benjamin Franklin

Offline Eric Bosworth

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Re: The Feds and disasters
« Reply #86 on: September 25, 2017, 08:30:23 am »
Quote
more jobs not less.

There is an overall increase in employment all over the country.  I am not sure I'd use Cuomo JRs website for reliable info though.   :wink:

I am not talking about overall employment.  I am talking about those at the bottom that this is supposed to help and pointing out the reasons it doesn't, and the reasons it may actually make it worse for many of them, never mind the cost to business which impacts all of us.

Cuomo Jr aka Uncle Andy is not well liked by me or many people I know. This is the same man who last March sent many of our snow plows to the city where there is too much traffic and parked cars to be effective and then the storm hit us instead of the city leaving us with fewer plows. Then, if that wasn't bad enough we go 3 feet of snow and he had them plow the runway at Edwin A. Link Field so that he could fly in and make a press conference. All of the roads were closed but we had to get that airport open so he could land. To make matters worse, he had 3 plows taken off the road to be a back drop for his press conference rather than clearing snow from the road. That's ok... He named the New Tappan Zee Bridge the Governor Mario Cuomo bridge. I think it's great that he will be remembered by higher bridge tolls.
« Last Edit: September 25, 2017, 10:37:35 am by Eric Bosworth »
All political power comes from the barrel of a gun. The communist party must command all the guns; that way, no guns can ever be used to command the party. ---Mao Tse Tung

Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote. ---Benjamin Franklin

Offline Acebird

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Re: The Feds and disasters
« Reply #87 on: September 25, 2017, 09:16:18 am »
I haven't heard anyone that owns a small business say they have no problem getting help.  There are far more jobs at the low end then there are people to fill them.  Raising minimum wage is a carrot to get people off of welfare.  You can't just pay people more to entice more workers unless your competition raises their payroll.  Minimum wage hikes help to accomplish that.

If you don't like New Yuck move.  Why are you still here?
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Offline Eric Bosworth

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Re: The Feds and disasters
« Reply #88 on: September 25, 2017, 10:28:48 am »
I haven't heard anyone that owns a small business say they have no problem getting help.  There are far more jobs at the low end then there are people to fill them.  Raising minimum wage is a carrot to get people off of welfare.
Quick easy solution to that eliminate welfare or at the very least put limits on it.
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You can't just pay people more to entice more workers unless your competition raises their payroll.  Minimum wage hikes help to accomplish that.
A booming economy would accomplish that and benefit everybody

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If you don't like New Yuck move.  Why are you still here?

Read the thing under my picture. I love New Yuck. I hate the government. Especially when New Yuck City has a stronger vote than those of us in the country. Representation should be based on area not population. Those of us in the country don't want the laws that may or may not make sense in the city that don't make sense at all in the country. But I do love the climate, and geography in New Yuck.
All political power comes from the barrel of a gun. The communist party must command all the guns; that way, no guns can ever be used to command the party. ---Mao Tse Tung

Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote. ---Benjamin Franklin

Online kathyp

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Re: The Feds and disasters
« Reply #89 on: September 25, 2017, 11:41:48 am »
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Especially when New Yuck City has a stronger vote than those of us in the country

A problem for all of us.  My state is red by land mass, but one city makes all our decisions.  We need some kind of electoral college for states  :grin:
They are so divorced from their own interests that even when their own security and that of their children is finally compromised, they do not seek to avert the danger themselves but cross their arms and wait for the nation as a whole to come to their aid. Yet as utterly as they sacrifice their own free will, they are no fonder of obedience than anyone else. They submit, it is true, to the whims of a clerk, but no sooner is force removed than they are glad to defy the law as a defeated enemy. Thus one finds them ever wavering between servitude and license.
Alexis de Tocqueville

Offline Eric Bosworth

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Re: The Feds and disasters
« Reply #90 on: September 25, 2017, 12:25:14 pm »
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Especially when New Yuck City has a stronger vote than those of us in the country

A problem for all of us.  My state is red by land mass, but one city makes all our decisions.  We need some kind of electoral college for states  :grin:
yupper... But I think the same effect could be created simply buy setting up representative districts equally by physical area.
All political power comes from the barrel of a gun. The communist party must command all the guns; that way, no guns can ever be used to command the party. ---Mao Tse Tung

Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote. ---Benjamin Franklin

Online Dallasbeek

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Re: The Feds and disasters
« Reply #91 on: September 25, 2017, 01:38:00 pm »
There's all kinds of thoughts on this problem.  Seems to me somebody proposed votes proportionate to taxes paid.  Rich guys should love that, but they'd be coflicted about using tax breaks then.  Whatever is "fair" to one is poison to the next person.
"Liberty lives in the hearts of men and women; when it dies there, no constitution, no laws, no court can save it." - Judge Learned Hand, 1944

Online kathyp

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Re: The Feds and disasters
« Reply #92 on: September 25, 2017, 11:38:45 pm »
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Rich guys should love that, but they'd be coflicted about using tax breaks then.  Whatever is "fair" to one is poison to the next person.


/quote]

How about just being a taxpayer or retired?  More and more people not paying taxes, but making decisions about what we do with taxes. 
They are so divorced from their own interests that even when their own security and that of their children is finally compromised, they do not seek to avert the danger themselves but cross their arms and wait for the nation as a whole to come to their aid. Yet as utterly as they sacrifice their own free will, they are no fonder of obedience than anyone else. They submit, it is true, to the whims of a clerk, but no sooner is force removed than they are glad to defy the law as a defeated enemy. Thus one finds them ever wavering between servitude and license.
Alexis de Tocqueville

Offline Eric Bosworth

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Re: The Feds and disasters
« Reply #93 on: September 26, 2017, 04:16:08 am »
Quote
Rich guys should love that, but they'd be coflicted about using tax breaks then.  Whatever is "fair" to one is poison to the next person.


/quote]

How about just being a taxpayer or retired?  More and more people not paying taxes, but making decisions about what we do with taxes.
That sounds reasonable... If only it was constitutional...

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All political power comes from the barrel of a gun. The communist party must command all the guns; that way, no guns can ever be used to command the party. ---Mao Tse Tung

Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote. ---Benjamin Franklin

Offline Acebird

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Re: The Feds and disasters
« Reply #94 on: September 26, 2017, 08:18:25 am »
That sounds reasonable...

It doesn't sound reasonable at all.  This country is based on everyone being equal and given the right to vote.  It took a while to get the voting age to 18.  Most 18 year old's don't pay taxes.  So you want the people with all the money having the most say?  That is mob rule in my book.
The electoral college is still a majority vote.  The only difference between the electoral college and popular vote is that the electoral college assumes the people of the country are uneducated and can't read and write.  This was the right assumption more than 200 years ago but the wrong assumption today.
The real problem with the last election was not electoral college vs. popular vote.  The real problem is that the election was affected by the interference from a foreign country through corruption and treason and the mobster won.  Fifty years from now the classified documents will be released and PBS will have a documentary on exactly how it was done assuming the people still have control of this country.
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Online iddee

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Re: The Feds and disasters
« Reply #95 on: September 26, 2017, 08:26:54 am »
Ace, you are right there except for one small detail. The mobster lost. She just refuses to admit it, just as you do
"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be"

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Offline Acebird

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Re: The Feds and disasters
« Reply #96 on: September 26, 2017, 08:56:44 am »
In fifty years the country will know who is right.
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Offline Psparr

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Re: The Feds and disasters
« Reply #97 on: September 26, 2017, 09:04:21 am »
Ace I hope crows evolve to taste good by then.

Online kathyp

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Re: The Feds and disasters
« Reply #98 on: September 26, 2017, 11:55:40 am »
50 years from now we'll know how Seal Team 6 was sacrificed to AQ in payment for taking out UBL.  We'll know why the admin sacrificed our people in Libya. We'll understand how many times the constitution was trashed to do things like kill American citizens without due process We'll know what Hillary hoped to hide by having a private server.  We'll know about Bill trips to little girl island.  We might even know how many times Obama claimed immigrant benefits for things like college, and if the first person accounts of where he was born are correct.

There's much we will know and should know, but the damage is done.  Knowing doesn't undo that.


They are so divorced from their own interests that even when their own security and that of their children is finally compromised, they do not seek to avert the danger themselves but cross their arms and wait for the nation as a whole to come to their aid. Yet as utterly as they sacrifice their own free will, they are no fonder of obedience than anyone else. They submit, it is true, to the whims of a clerk, but no sooner is force removed than they are glad to defy the law as a defeated enemy. Thus one finds them ever wavering between servitude and license.
Alexis de Tocqueville

Offline Acebird

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Re: The Feds and disasters
« Reply #99 on: September 26, 2017, 01:36:51 pm »
Knowing doesn't undo that.
Knowing should prevent it from happening again but it hasn't yet.
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