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Author Topic: The Feds and disasters  (Read 2586 times)

Offline kathyp

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Re: The Feds and disasters
« Reply #60 on: September 22, 2017, 03:27:20 pm »
Here is the paper from UW.  The powers that be in Seattle were so upset when they found out what the study said the quickly paid someone at Berkely to write the opposite before this paper was published.   
They are so divorced from their own interests that even when their own security and that of their children is finally compromised, they do not seek to avert the danger themselves but cross their arms and wait for the nation as a whole to come to their aid. Yet as utterly as they sacrifice their own free will, they are no fonder of obedience than anyone else. They submit, it is true, to the whims of a clerk, but no sooner is force removed than they are glad to defy the law as a defeated enemy. Thus one finds them ever wavering between servitude and license.
Alexis de Tocqueville

Offline gww

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Re: The Feds and disasters
« Reply #61 on: September 22, 2017, 03:36:55 pm »
Dallas
I did mean the general.  I thought I agreed that he did not misjudge chinas military capabilities.  Just how much they were willing to kill thier own people and what the stomach of the americans committment would be faced with that.  I think he was pretty sure he could out kill them just misjudged a little (or at least his reports to his superiors did) that they would make him out kill so many and not reconize they were out gunned instead.
Thanks for correcting me, I knew it but didn't know what my fingers were doing :smile:.
Cheers
gww

Offline Dallasbeek

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Re: The Feds and disasters
« Reply #62 on: September 22, 2017, 03:53:18 pm »
Here is the paper from UW.  The powers that be in Seattle were so upset when they found out what the study said the quickly paid someone at Berkely to write the opposite before this paper was published.

You must have  misfired Kathy.  I don't see a link.
"Liberty lives in the hearts of men and women; when it dies there, no constitution, no laws, no court can save it." - Judge Learned Hand, 1944

Offline Dallasbeek

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Re: The Feds and disasters
« Reply #63 on: September 22, 2017, 04:03:53 pm »
Dallas
I did mean the general.  I thought I agreed that he did not misjudge chinas military capabilities.  Just how much they were willing to kill thier own people and what the stomach of the americans committment would be faced with that.  I think he was pretty sure he could out kill them just misjudged a little (or at least his reports to his superiors did) that they would make him out kill so many and not reconize they were out gunned instead.
Thanks for correcting me, I knew it but didn't know what my fingers were doing :smile:.
Cheers
gww

The American people have not had much stomach for losses since the Civil War.  Well, at least since WW2, I guess.  Why our politicians keep getting us into wars they aren't prepared to win is a mystery to me.  Watching The Vietnam War on PBS right now is a real eye-opener.  I was a journalist through most of that mess and never heard any of what this show is bringing out.  I was at one time scheduled to go there for a month or so under some program the govt. had with major newspapers.  The people ahead of me on the list had had all their shots when the govt. killed the program.  I guess they didn't want the whole story to be told.  That was about 1965, as I recall.
"Liberty lives in the hearts of men and women; when it dies there, no constitution, no laws, no court can save it." - Judge Learned Hand, 1944

Offline gww

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Re: The Feds and disasters
« Reply #64 on: September 22, 2017, 04:42:18 pm »
Dallas
I also am watching pbs.  I have not missed the first three anyway.  I hope to catch all ten hours worth.  I guess one differrance in the story is all the declassification of material.

I too think that the wars that were fought against whole countries have worked out better then the ones where we like half a country and don't like the other half.  It was telling last night when the point was made that (how I took it) killing and numbers of dead was more important then taking and holding land. 
Cheers
gww

Offline Acebird

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Re: The Feds and disasters
« Reply #65 on: September 22, 2017, 04:52:02 pm »
I guess they didn't want the whole story to be told.

Wow, are you now seeing the value of the press?
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Offline Acebird

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Re: The Feds and disasters
« Reply #66 on: September 22, 2017, 05:05:54 pm »
Too many post to keep up with this thread.

Minimum wage causes inflation which hurts the top and benefits the bottom.  Technological advances occur when you invest in something that is unknown.  Things like the space program or stem cell research.  Unfortunately the military has an unlimited budget.  It can be raised at any time for any reason.  That amount of money pouring into the military helps develop technology that has already been invented.  That is a pretty pee poor way of making standard of living advances.  The single most cause for standard of living increases is MACHINES.  Products get made cheaper so more products get sold.  The single most cause of standard of living decreases is the military and the associated wars.  Money gets consumed with zero gain.
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Offline kathyp

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Re: The Feds and disasters
« Reply #67 on: September 22, 2017, 06:46:08 pm »
They are so divorced from their own interests that even when their own security and that of their children is finally compromised, they do not seek to avert the danger themselves but cross their arms and wait for the nation as a whole to come to their aid. Yet as utterly as they sacrifice their own free will, they are no fonder of obedience than anyone else. They submit, it is true, to the whims of a clerk, but no sooner is force removed than they are glad to defy the law as a defeated enemy. Thus one finds them ever wavering between servitude and license.
Alexis de Tocqueville

Offline Dallasbeek

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Re: The Feds and disasters
« Reply #68 on: September 22, 2017, 07:34:11 pm »
Dallas
I also am watching pbs.  I have not missed the first three anyway.  I hope to catch all ten hours worth.  I guess one differrance in the story is all the declassification of material.

gww

I think it's 18 hours.  I could be wrong, but that's what I think i heard.  Hope you can hold out to see all of them.
"Liberty lives in the hearts of men and women; when it dies there, no constitution, no laws, no court can save it." - Judge Learned Hand, 1944

Offline iddee

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Re: The Feds and disasters
« Reply #69 on: September 22, 2017, 07:42:26 pm »
I saw 364 days of the real thing. I don't think I desire to see any more of it.
Thanks anyway.
"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be"

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Offline Acebird

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Re: The Feds and disasters
« Reply #70 on: September 22, 2017, 09:08:13 pm »
I saw 364 days of the real thing. I don't think I desire to see any more of it.
Thanks anyway.
That could explain why you like Trump so much.  You like being lied to.
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Offline Acebird

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Re: The Feds and disasters
« Reply #72 on: September 22, 2017, 09:26:01 pm »
Quote
The authors? analysis, however, suffers from a number of data and methodological problems that bias the study in the direction of finding job loss, even where there may have been no job loss at all.
Really
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Offline iddee

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Re: The Feds and disasters
« Reply #73 on: September 22, 2017, 09:30:53 pm »
Where do you buy your reverse glasses, Ace? Those that let you see everything in life opposite what it really is?
"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be"

*Shel Silverstein*

Offline Acebird

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Re: The Feds and disasters
« Reply #74 on: September 22, 2017, 09:34:43 pm »
At least I have glasses.  I can see something.  When will you take off the blinders?
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Offline iddee

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Re: The Feds and disasters
« Reply #75 on: September 22, 2017, 10:18:01 pm »
If all I see is wrong, I don't think I want to see. I can at least get half the truth with blinders. That's better than being 100% wrong.
"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be"

*Shel Silverstein*

Offline kathyp

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Re: The Feds and disasters
« Reply #76 on: September 22, 2017, 10:24:21 pm »
Quote
http://www.epi.org/publication/the-high-road-seattle-labor-market-and-the-effects-of-the-minimum-wage-increase-data-limitations-and-methodological-problems-bias-new-analysis-of-seattles-minimum-wage-incr/

except that you use a source with an agenda.   :wink:

this is what the city of Seattle did when they found out what the UW report was going to say.  As I pointed out, UW is a very liberal college.  If they were going to lean, it would be toward left-wing things.  The fact that they came to these conclusions in spite of their probably predisposition lends weight to their study. 

This is a pretty good article from San Diego.  It also points out why these wage hikes don't help.
http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/business/columnists/dan-mcswain/sd-fi-mcswain-minimum-wage-job-losses-20170611-story.html
They are so divorced from their own interests that even when their own security and that of their children is finally compromised, they do not seek to avert the danger themselves but cross their arms and wait for the nation as a whole to come to their aid. Yet as utterly as they sacrifice their own free will, they are no fonder of obedience than anyone else. They submit, it is true, to the whims of a clerk, but no sooner is force removed than they are glad to defy the law as a defeated enemy. Thus one finds them ever wavering between servitude and license.
Alexis de Tocqueville

Offline gww

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Re: The Feds and disasters
« Reply #77 on: September 22, 2017, 10:44:47 pm »
Kathy
I hear you on what I picked but what you picked had not been submitted for peer review and so these are the type of guys that are going to be reviewing thier work.  I personally don't think enough time has went by for a good review of the effects.  All the previous studies that show differrent then the study you high light have had many years after the raise increase to get a longer term view and come to differrent view then yours.  Your study trys to say that they have more info to go by but they have not had more time.

I will say that your study does make one point. It says over all that the people have a one hundred and twenty five dollar loss in what they bring home.  Being a worker, I used to be able to make a several hundred more on my check but I had to do hundred hour weeks which left no time for other constructive things I might have been able to do.  I found that just money was not always the best deal to be had.  One other thing that a study of such short time being coverd, it does not reflect things that might be tried for a little while to make up the differrance of the higher wage that might be found after trying it, that it didn't work and in the end the employer end up needing what he always needed to get what he want done done.

I worked for minimum wage in my life and will be honest, I was looking for better the whole time I did it.  I do however know that some people like what they are doing and stay longer then I was willing to and also that when I found better, somebody usually was hired to replace me.  Seattle had a 14 percent over all increase in jobs during this time.
Cheers
gww

Offline Acebird

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Re: The Feds and disasters
« Reply #78 on: September 22, 2017, 10:56:35 pm »
Kathy, there is no way a city wide experiment will forecast a nation wide result.  Even in the article you linked jobs were replace by automation in the food industry.  Who lost their job?  Kids.  Do you know anyone in the fast food business?  Their constant cry is they can't get good help.  So now they are forced to automate and in the process they created good jobs not service jobs that pay nothing.  I see it as a win but the article wanted to express it as a loss.
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Offline Eric Bosworth

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Re: The Feds and disasters
« Reply #79 on: September 23, 2017, 07:03:34 am »
Kathy, there is no way a city wide experiment will forecast a nation wide result.  Even in the article you linked jobs were replace by automation in the food industry.  Who lost their job?  Kids.  Do you know anyone in the fast food business?  Their constant cry is they can't get good help.  So now they are forced to automate and in the process they created good jobs not service jobs that pay nothing.  I see it as a win but the article wanted to express it as a loss.
Perhaps not... What about personal experience? I know for a fact that when uncle Andy and his liberal friends announced the increased the minimum wage in New York last year where I work laid people off. Many others have are now 11 month employees.

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