Welcome, Guest

Author Topic: The Feds and disasters  (Read 2329 times)

Offline Eric Bosworth

  • Field Bee
  • ***
  • Posts: 992
  • Gender: Male
  • I love New York... I hate the government.
Re: The Feds and disasters
« Reply #20 on: September 20, 2017, 11:16:43 am »

At this point, the size of a hurricane doesn't matter much, the coast line is so built up that a small storm will cause a lot of damage in repair costs.

Really?  There was more damage in Jacksonville when the eye of the hurricane was in Orlando.  Jim, is your property 50 ft off the beach?  Are you expecting donations or aid from the federal government any time soon?
I noticed you neglected to include my statement about the tree falling in the everglades with only a gator as a witness. The entire state of Florida and for that matter the entire east coast is a hurricane zone. It is not if a hurricane will come through but when it will come through. I know it sounds heartless. It is not meant to be heartless it is meant to be reality. For those donating money to hurricane relief funds good for them. I applaud their efforts. I do not however believe that the federal government should steal tax dollars from some people who do not live there and use them to subsidize reconstruction after a hurricane in a hurricane prone area. At the very least, if a home is destroyed in a hurricane and federal funding is received by the property owner they should not be allowed to rebuild in a hurricane prone area. If a private insurance company wants to write a private policy fine but the premium should reflect the risk.
All political power comes from the barrel of a gun. The communist party must command all the guns; that way, no guns can ever be used to command the party. ---Mao Tse Tung

Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote. ---Benjamin Franklin

Offline Eric Bosworth

  • Field Bee
  • ***
  • Posts: 992
  • Gender: Male
  • I love New York... I hate the government.
Re: The Feds and disasters
« Reply #21 on: September 20, 2017, 11:20:02 am »
What bothers me is that the dictator of North Korea is psycho and he seems to be close to nuke capabilities.

What bothers me is that we have a president that is psycho and we do have nukes, many of them.  He also has the same agenda as Hitler, a country of white people who in his mind are supreme to all others.  If you want to learn something from history learn that Hitler got his power from people that supported him not from a lack of people that opposed him.  Watch history repeat itself, it always does.
That's just sad. Your "reality" is so skewed by your ideology that I'm worried about your mental health.
You think our president psycho? . . .
It is all part of the big lie. He should read the book. Then he might understand that he is actually the fascist that he claims trump is. He won't admit it because that would be admitting the lie. It is better to perpetuate it.
All political power comes from the barrel of a gun. The communist party must command all the guns; that way, no guns can ever be used to command the party. ---Mao Tse Tung

Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote. ---Benjamin Franklin

Online kathyp

  • Universal Bee
  • *******
  • Posts: 16514
  • Gender: Female
Re: The Feds and disasters
« Reply #22 on: September 20, 2017, 12:43:38 pm »
Quote
I can't deny that but this goes back to our overseas interventions. We overthrew Prime Minister Mohammad Mosaddegh and installed the Shah.

Yeah...although I don't know if it mattered in the long run given the Islamization of all these countries.  Restoring the Caliphate goes back long before our intervention. 
Quote
Really?  There was more damage in Jacksonville when the eye of the hurricane was in Orlando.  Jim, is your property 50 ft off the beach?  Are you expecting donations or aid from the federal government any time soon?

assuming you are talking about Katrina, the eye was over Slidell.  I shouldn't make assumptions looking at your posts.  You are a bit off your rocker today.

Quote
The entire state of Florida and for that matter the entire east coast is a hurricane zone. It is not if a hurricane will come through but when it will come through. I know it sounds heartless. It is not meant to be heartless it is meant to be reality. For those donating money to hurricane relief funds good for them. I applaud their efforts. I do not however believe that the federal government should steal tax dollars from some people who do not live there and use them to subsidize reconstruction after a hurricane in a hurricane prone area. At the very least, if a home is destroyed in a hurricane and federal funding is received by the property owner they should not be allowed to rebuild in a hurricane prone area. If a private insurance company wants to write a private policy fine but the premium should reflect the risk.

Exactly.  While disasters can happen anywhere, there are places that we know will get hit over and over.  The same should apply to earthquake-prone areas, and places that burn every year.  In fact, to some extent it does.  In rural areas, fire insurance can be high if there is a history of fire.  Earthquake insurance is an added expense and cost depends on the area.  But why bother?  FEMA with its magic money bag will swoop in a fix things.
They are so divorced from their own interests that even when their own security and that of their children is finally compromised, they do not seek to avert the danger themselves but cross their arms and wait for the nation as a whole to come to their aid. Yet as utterly as they sacrifice their own free will, they are no fonder of obedience than anyone else. They submit, it is true, to the whims of a clerk, but no sooner is force removed than they are glad to defy the law as a defeated enemy. Thus one finds them ever wavering between servitude and license.
Alexis de Tocqueville

Offline Acebird

  • Galactic Bee
  • ******
  • Posts: 4294
  • Gender: Male
  • Practicing non intervention beekeeping
Re: The Feds and disasters
« Reply #23 on: September 20, 2017, 02:18:26 pm »
Irma, Kathy.  Maybe you were putting out forest fires and didn't notice.
Brian Cardinal
Just do it

Online kathyp

  • Universal Bee
  • *******
  • Posts: 16514
  • Gender: Female
Re: The Feds and disasters
« Reply #24 on: September 20, 2017, 02:26:28 pm »
Quote
Irma, Kathy.  Maybe you were putting out forest fires and didn't notice.

Sorry, I was a little preoccupied, but not with putting out fires.  I was working in a shelter for those evacuated from the fires.  The fires that would not be so bad if the government, in all its wisdom, didn't leave these places to grow out of control and go up in flames.  A little logging would help a lot!!

They are so divorced from their own interests that even when their own security and that of their children is finally compromised, they do not seek to avert the danger themselves but cross their arms and wait for the nation as a whole to come to their aid. Yet as utterly as they sacrifice their own free will, they are no fonder of obedience than anyone else. They submit, it is true, to the whims of a clerk, but no sooner is force removed than they are glad to defy the law as a defeated enemy. Thus one finds them ever wavering between servitude and license.
Alexis de Tocqueville

Offline Acebird

  • Galactic Bee
  • ******
  • Posts: 4294
  • Gender: Male
  • Practicing non intervention beekeeping
Re: The Feds and disasters
« Reply #25 on: September 20, 2017, 05:28:20 pm »
Quote
Irma, Kathy.  Maybe you were putting out forest fires and didn't notice.

Sorry, I was a little preoccupied, but not with putting out fires.  I was working in a shelter for those evacuated from the fires.  The fires that would not be so bad if the government, in all its wisdom, didn't leave these places to grow out of control and go up in flames.  A little logging would help a lot!!
Sensible logging that would create fire breaks and give access to fire fighter when they occur.  Although I have heard that forest fires are good for the forest but not people.  Let me get this straight now.  You want government to do something about forest fires?
Brian Cardinal
Just do it

Offline Psparr

  • Field Bee
  • ***
  • Posts: 606
  • Gender: Male
Re: The Feds and disasters
« Reply #26 on: September 20, 2017, 05:57:25 pm »
No, she wants government to get the hill out of the way and let foresters do their job.

Offline iddee

  • Galactic Bee
  • ******
  • Posts: 8397
  • Gender: Male
Re: The Feds and disasters
« Reply #27 on: September 20, 2017, 06:19:52 pm »
DITTO what Psparr said.
"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be"

*Shel Silverstein*

Offline sawdstmakr

  • Global Moderator
  • Galactic Bee
  • *******
  • Posts: 8310
  • Gender: Male
Re: The Feds and disasters
« Reply #28 on: September 20, 2017, 07:11:13 pm »
X3 :cheesy:
"If you don't read the newspaper you are uninformed.  If you do read the newspaper you are misinformed."--Mark Twain

Online kathyp

  • Universal Bee
  • *******
  • Posts: 16514
  • Gender: Female
Re: The Feds and disasters
« Reply #29 on: September 20, 2017, 09:35:05 pm »
Quote
No, she wants government to get the hill out of the way and let foresters do their job.

Yes.  The government has laid claim to either the land itself or regulated its use.  year after year the things that might be done by private industry, like logging, are restricted.  The things private landowners would like to do in these areas is often restricted.  The land that the government claims to own, they put aside as things like "wilderness areas" which means even fire roads do not go in. 

yes, natural fires can be good for the forest.  I don't care if the burn where there are no people.  When people live in the area, and the land could be managed and used, it is stupid for the government to keep them from doing it....and since the fires don't stay in those wilderness areas the government either needs to take care of what they claim to own, or let someone else do it....or stop taking land.
They are so divorced from their own interests that even when their own security and that of their children is finally compromised, they do not seek to avert the danger themselves but cross their arms and wait for the nation as a whole to come to their aid. Yet as utterly as they sacrifice their own free will, they are no fonder of obedience than anyone else. They submit, it is true, to the whims of a clerk, but no sooner is force removed than they are glad to defy the law as a defeated enemy. Thus one finds them ever wavering between servitude and license.
Alexis de Tocqueville

Offline tycrnp

  • House Bee
  • **
  • Posts: 226
Re: The Feds and disasters
« Reply #30 on: September 20, 2017, 11:08:34 pm »
Quote
Exactly.  While disasters can happen anywhere, there are places that we know will get hit over and over.  The same should apply to earthquake-prone areas, and places that burn every year.  In fact, to some extent it does.  In rural areas, fire insurance can be high if there is a history of fire.  Earthquake insurance is an added expense and cost depends on the area.  But why bother?  FEMA with its magic money bag will swoop in a fix things.

FEMA didn't help me post Ivan! They offered me a SBA LOAN to supplement my private insurance.  If you really want your blood to boil, research "severe repetitive loss properties."


Offline Acebird

  • Galactic Bee
  • ******
  • Posts: 4294
  • Gender: Male
  • Practicing non intervention beekeeping
Re: The Feds and disasters
« Reply #31 on: September 21, 2017, 08:10:43 am »
The land that the government claims to own, they put aside as things like "wilderness areas" which means even fire roads do not go in. 

I think this is a result of how our officials are elected.  It is either all or nothing so usually nothing gets done.  How do you allow common sense to prevail without having the creep you spoke of a while back?  I would be leery of private enterprise being involved.  A logger would want to clear cut because it is the most economical for them.  I wouldn't have a problem with knowledgeable people in forestry making decisions to preserve the wilderness but you know who is cutting their budget.
Brian Cardinal
Just do it

Offline Eric Bosworth

  • Field Bee
  • ***
  • Posts: 992
  • Gender: Male
  • I love New York... I hate the government.
Re: The Feds and disasters
« Reply #32 on: September 21, 2017, 09:58:33 am »
The land that the government claims to own, they put aside as things like "wilderness areas" which means even fire roads do not go in. 

I think this is a result of how our officials are elected.  It is either all or nothing so usually nothing gets done.  How do you allow common sense to prevail without having the creep you spoke of a while back?  I would be leery of private enterprise being involved. A logger would want to clear cut because it is the most economical for them.  I wouldn't have a problem with knowledgeable people in forestry making decisions to preserve the wilderness but you know who is cutting their budget.

Is clear cutting bad? Around me there is a lot of state forest that is spruce trees ready for harvest. I think they are some variety of spruce anyway. Regardless, they clear cut it. For 2 or 3 years it looks absolutely terrible. But then about 5 years later the trees are not there but it grows back enough that you would never know that a forest was there to begin with and there is lots of cover for small game. Is that bad? The mentality is that you cut down a tree you are killing the world is just ridiculous.
All political power comes from the barrel of a gun. The communist party must command all the guns; that way, no guns can ever be used to command the party. ---Mao Tse Tung

Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote. ---Benjamin Franklin

Offline Eric Bosworth

  • Field Bee
  • ***
  • Posts: 992
  • Gender: Male
  • I love New York... I hate the government.
Re: The Feds and disasters
« Reply #33 on: September 21, 2017, 10:19:03 am »
Quote
No, she wants government to get the hill out of the way and let foresters do their job.

Yes.  The government has laid claim to either the land itself or regulated its use.  year after year the things that might be done by private industry, like logging, are restricted.  The things private landowners would like to do in these areas is often restricted.  The land that the government claims to own, they put aside as things like "wilderness areas" which means even fire roads do not go in. 

yes, natural fires can be good for the forest.  I don't care if the burn where there are no people.  When people live in the area, and the land could be managed and used, it is stupid for the government to keep them from doing it....and since the fires don't stay in those wilderness areas the government either needs to take care of what they claim to own, or let someone else do it....or stop taking land.
This goes back to a post I made in the thread "Thank's EPA" found here
https://beemaster.com/forum/index.php?topic=46171.20

Bluebee: I think that you misunderstand the difference between intent and result.

Lets talk for a second about the endangered species act. On its face it creates more incentive to kill endangered species than to protect them. Let me explain... If I was to see a California Condor flying around my property, (Not likely to happen in upstate New Yuck but hypothetically...) what should I do about it? I could call the EPA and they could come in and dictate what I can and can not do with my land anymore devaluing my property... I could shoot the bird bury it and shut up about it and nobody would know the difference... Or I could do nothing and hope nobody notices it. I personally would choose option 3 but many endangered species have been killed because of option 2. That however is the good side of the endangered species act.

In dry climates, the endangered species act has other negative effects. In an effort to protect endangered species god forbid we managed forests. We have to protect habitat. So in an effort to protect habitat forests get overgrown. When forests get overgrown they suck all the water out of the ground. Then lightning strikes and starts a wild fire. God forbid we clear cut fire breaks. So there is nothing to stop the fire once it starts. So the end result is the habitat is destroyed, the species themselves are killed, and then countless dollars of personal property are destroyed with it. So let me ask you blue, do you think that we need to make catalytic converters for wildfires?

Unfortunately I think I scared off Bluebee with that post because I don't believe he has posted anything since. But when wild fires are a direct result of government interference perhaps the government should get out of the way.
All political power comes from the barrel of a gun. The communist party must command all the guns; that way, no guns can ever be used to command the party. ---Mao Tse Tung

Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote. ---Benjamin Franklin

Online kathyp

  • Universal Bee
  • *******
  • Posts: 16514
  • Gender: Female
Re: The Feds and disasters
« Reply #34 on: September 21, 2017, 01:14:54 pm »
Quote
  I would be leery of private enterprise being involved.  A logger would want to clear cut because it is the most economical for them.  I wouldn't have a problem with knowledgeable people in forestry making decisions to preserve the wilderness but you know who is cutting their budget.

We already have laws about replanting. 

I ride up in the mountains.  There is nothing more beautiful and more alive than an old clearcut.  Trees do regrow on their own.  In the meantime, the slash left is home to a variety of small game, and the meadows are food for deer and elk.  There's a variety of flowers for bees and butterflies. 

Private enterprise has a vested interest in taking care of what they are going to use.  If they do not, they do not get profit.  There was a time when there were so few people and so much forest people could cut at will and not worry about tomorrow.  We still have vast forests, but we have a lot of people around also.  More care must be taken to make sure that those lands available for logging are taken care of.

The government has no interested in profit.  They only have an interest in ownership and for the wrong reasons.  What is the motivation for the government to take proper care of the land? 

Trees are a crop.
They are so divorced from their own interests that even when their own security and that of their children is finally compromised, they do not seek to avert the danger themselves but cross their arms and wait for the nation as a whole to come to their aid. Yet as utterly as they sacrifice their own free will, they are no fonder of obedience than anyone else. They submit, it is true, to the whims of a clerk, but no sooner is force removed than they are glad to defy the law as a defeated enemy. Thus one finds them ever wavering between servitude and license.
Alexis de Tocqueville

Offline Eric Bosworth

  • Field Bee
  • ***
  • Posts: 992
  • Gender: Male
  • I love New York... I hate the government.
Re: The Feds and disasters
« Reply #35 on: September 21, 2017, 01:54:10 pm »
Quote
  I would be leery of private enterprise being involved.  A logger would want to clear cut because it is the most economical for them.  I wouldn't have a problem with knowledgeable people in forestry making decisions to preserve the wilderness but you know who is cutting their budget.

We already have laws about replanting. 

I ride up in the mountains.  There is nothing more beautiful and more alive than an old clearcut.  Trees do regrow on their own.  In the meantime, the slash left is home to a variety of small game, and the meadows are food for deer and elk.  There's a variety of flowers for bees and butterflies. 

Private enterprise has a vested interest in taking care of what they are going to use.  If they do not, they do not get profit.  There was a time when there were so few people and so much forest people could cut at will and not worry about tomorrow.  We still have vast forests, but we have a lot of people around also.  More care must be taken to make sure that those lands available for logging are taken care of.

The government has no interested in profit.  They only have an interest in ownership and for the wrong reasons.  What is the motivation for the government to take proper care of the land? 

Trees are a crop.

There is no motivation for the government to take proper care of the land. Then again, there is no motivation for the government to provide excellent health care either... To be honest, I can't think of anything that provides motivation for the government to do anything well... One thing they have gotten good at is stealing taxes... That they have a motivation to do... It's the only thing that government has a motivation to do well.

Here is the problem, the leftest media has brainwashed people into thinking that the government can and should do these things and that apparently trees should not be harvested as a crop. A former neighbor of my parents used to buy standing timber for a living. There is a lot of looking at tax maps involved in buying standing timber and the name on one piece of property about a half hour drive from me caught his eye... especially considering the timber on it. The name on the tax map says John Lennon and Yoko Ono. So he stopped by and asked the caretaker if they would be willing to sell timber and with a resounding no he refused even say who the owner was just that it belongs to a private owner. Apparently he was unaware that tax maps are public records. I heat my house with wood, I make bee hives out of wood, I build lots of things out of wood. I would love to buy a portable sawmill. Environmentalists think that they can help the environment by regulating the life out of the economy and not allowing forests to be touched but they don't realize that their efforts have unintended consequences that have the exact opposite of what they are trying to accomplish.
All political power comes from the barrel of a gun. The communist party must command all the guns; that way, no guns can ever be used to command the party. ---Mao Tse Tung

Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote. ---Benjamin Franklin

Online kathyp

  • Universal Bee
  • *******
  • Posts: 16514
  • Gender: Female
Re: The Feds and disasters
« Reply #36 on: September 21, 2017, 02:02:51 pm »
Quote
I heat my house with wood, I make bee hives out of wood, I build lots of things out of wood. I would love to buy a portable sawmill. Environmentalists think that they can help the environment by regulating the life out of the economy and not allowing forests to be touched but they don't realize that their efforts have unintended consequences that have the exact opposite of what they are trying to accomplish.

one of those consequences for the US is that we buy wood from Canada.  Buying so far away requires transport.  Transport uses those nasty fossil fuels.  Rather than harvesting a crop we have in abundance, we spend more money, time, and resources to buy from a country not so stupid.
They are so divorced from their own interests that even when their own security and that of their children is finally compromised, they do not seek to avert the danger themselves but cross their arms and wait for the nation as a whole to come to their aid. Yet as utterly as they sacrifice their own free will, they are no fonder of obedience than anyone else. They submit, it is true, to the whims of a clerk, but no sooner is force removed than they are glad to defy the law as a defeated enemy. Thus one finds them ever wavering between servitude and license.
Alexis de Tocqueville

Offline Acebird

  • Galactic Bee
  • ******
  • Posts: 4294
  • Gender: Male
  • Practicing non intervention beekeeping
Re: The Feds and disasters
« Reply #37 on: September 21, 2017, 02:17:18 pm »
Private enterprise has a vested interest in taking care of what they are going to use.
Only if they are limited to what they can use.  If they have no limits they will wipe out everything and then think about regrowth.  I think there is some merit to have some areas forever wild and some areas for harvest.
I always thought that government was you and me in this country.  I see it go all the way right and all the way left with no compromise in the middle.  I think the problem is not necessarily government per say, it is because we have carrier politicians that can grab power over time.  Term limits for everybody would help this country a lot.
Brian Cardinal
Just do it

Online kathyp

  • Universal Bee
  • *******
  • Posts: 16514
  • Gender: Female
Re: The Feds and disasters
« Reply #38 on: September 21, 2017, 03:40:28 pm »
Quote
Only if they are limited to what they can use.  If they have no limits they will wipe out everything and then think about regrowth.

How would that be in their interest?  the crop takes years to grow to harvest age so they would need to think of that if they were worried about future profit.  Self-interest is the best regulator, not the government. 

To your concern though, in case a company would be so sort-sighted, there are already replanting regulations.  Additionally, studies show that younger trees are far better at cleaning CO2 from the air than older trees, so the more harvesting and replanting, the better right?  Burning forests release all that stuff back into the air.

I know that term limits are attractive.  I am not hot either for or against them.  if the people are so stupid that they keep putting the same idiots in office, term limits will not fix stupid people.  Being able to vote should be term limits enough.  CA has done term limits with mixed results and they are now trying to fix what went wrong.  We should study what they did, since they have a predisposition for doing things wrong, and not repeat the mistakes. 
They are so divorced from their own interests that even when their own security and that of their children is finally compromised, they do not seek to avert the danger themselves but cross their arms and wait for the nation as a whole to come to their aid. Yet as utterly as they sacrifice their own free will, they are no fonder of obedience than anyone else. They submit, it is true, to the whims of a clerk, but no sooner is force removed than they are glad to defy the law as a defeated enemy. Thus one finds them ever wavering between servitude and license.
Alexis de Tocqueville

Offline Eric Bosworth

  • Field Bee
  • ***
  • Posts: 992
  • Gender: Male
  • I love New York... I hate the government.
Re: The Feds and disasters
« Reply #39 on: September 21, 2017, 03:57:50 pm »
Quote
Only if they are limited to what they can use.  If they have no limits they will wipe out everything and then think about regrowth.

I know that term limits are attractive.  I am not hot either for or against them.  if the people are so stupid that they keep putting the same idiots in office, term limits will not fix stupid people.  Being able to vote should be term limits enough.  CA has done term limits with mixed results and they are now trying to fix what went wrong.  We should study what they did, since they have a predisposition for doing things wrong, and not repeat the mistakes.
I think think term limits should be more in the way of consecutive terms then just a set number of years in office. I also believe that lobbying should be prohibited for 10 years after leaving office.
All political power comes from the barrel of a gun. The communist party must command all the guns; that way, no guns can ever be used to command the party. ---Mao Tse Tung

Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote. ---Benjamin Franklin