Top bar size

[jimineycricket]

I make my own frames.
I started making the top bars 1 1/16" wide. The end bars 1 3/8" wide. I then cut down the end bars to    1 1/4" wide, that makes the spacing between the top bars quite close.

Should I cut down the top bars, to give the bees more room to move up between the top bars?

Labor is not a factor. I thought I would leave around 2" on the end of the top bars 1 1/16" wide, to give more support for the end bars, and just shave down the middle of the top bars

jimmy

[gww]

I am new, I started cutting mine to one inch even but I am not I am also making my side bars 1 and 5/16 and not 1.25.  Don't ask me why but I have had no issues.
I read else where that 7/8th would be about perfect.
Cheers
gww

[Eric Bosworth]

I make my own frames.
I started making the top bars 1 1/16" wide. The end bars 1 3/8" wide. I then cut down the end bars to    1 1/4" wide, that makes the spacing between the top bars quite close.

Should I cut down the top bars, to give the bees more room to move up between the top bars?

Labor is not a factor. I thought I would leave around 2" on the end of the top bars 1 1/16" wide, to give more support for the end bars, and just shave down the middle of the top bars

jimmy

I use end bars that are 1 3/8" for honey supers and 1 1/4" for the brood nest. That allows you to add more frames to the brood nest. As far as the top bars I make mine 7/8" wide for 1 3/8" end bars and 3/4" for 1 1/4" end bars. I try to make things quick and easy and if I do that then I don't need to cut notches in the side for the end bars. The key word there is should. You should do what every works best for you. The bees really don't care much.

[Van, Arkansas, USA]

"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote. ---Benjamin Franklin"

That is an awesome saying, signature, totally awesome, I'll have to place that in my memory of FAMOUS INTELLIGENCE SAYINGS.
BLESSINGS

[Eric Bosworth]

"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote. ---Benjamin Franklin"

That is an awesome saying, signature, totally awesome, I'll have to place that in my memory of FAMOUS INTELLIGENCE SAYINGS.
BLESSINGS

Yes, Ben was a brilliant man. He is also responsible for Article I Section 7 that makes Obamacare unconstitutional because it originated in the Senate and all bills regarding revenue shall originate in the house.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N910A using Tapatalk

[tycrnp]

"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote. ---Benjamin Franklin"

LOVE it!

[little john]

I had to convert to metric to work this one out ...

1+1/16 = 27mm  1+3/8 = 35mm  1+1/4 = 32mm

35-27 = 8mm gap (the upper end of 'a beespace')
32-27 = 5mm gap (the lower end of 'a beespace')

So - that reduction should be fine.

FWIW(1) - our off-the-shelf Hoffman frames have 22mm top bars and 35mm spacing.

35-22 = 13mm gap (2x beespaces) which works equally well.

FWIW(2) - my home-made frames are 22mm (7/8" in your money) all round: top bars, side bars, bottom bar - I then fit small woodscrews into the top bar lug sides to adjust the spacing: usually between 32 and 35mm.  Works a treat.
LJ

[Eric Bosworth]

I had to convert to metric to work this one out ...

1+1/16 = 27mm  1+3/8 = 35mm  1+1/4 = 32mm

35-27 = 8mm gap (the upper end of 'a beespace')
32-27 = 5mm gap (the lower end of 'a beespace')

So - that reduction should be fine.

FWIW(1) - our off-the-shelf Hoffman frames have 22mm top bars and 35mm spacing.

35-22 = 13mm gap (2x beespaces) which works equally well.

FWIW(2) - my home-made frames are 22mm (7/8" in your money) all round: top bars, side bars, bottom bar - I then fit small woodscrews into the top bar lug sides to adjust the spacing: usually between 32 and 35mm.  Works a treat.
LJ

Funny... Didn't we get this crazy system of measurement from England? I have 1 tape measure that I won at a conference that has metric on one side. I was so excited to have a metric tape. I always look for metric tape and can't find it. I plan to build a metric bee house in a few years. I am going to need another metric tape.

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[little john]

Not guilty. 

The metre was originally defined by the French in 1793 as one ten-millionth of the distance from the equator to the North Pole - but then somebody noticed that the Earth isn't a true sphere, and so several generations of metal bars of that length were duly made as a practical reference - eventually culminating in one made from 90% platinum and 10% iridium, the original being kept at S?vres, near Paris. (just one of the thousands of bits of irrelevant information rammed into my skull as a kid.  60 years on and I'm still trying to find a use for quadratic equations ...)

According to Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_metre#International_prototype_metre - a copy of this bar was sent to the US - but maybe somebody lost it ... ?  (or more likely melted it down and sold the metal to Tiffany's)

Personally, I like to use thou's for fine precision; millimetres for measurements from (say) 1/20" to 2"; inches from then-on upwards, to feet, yards and miles.
Never did get the hang of several tens of centimetres, or kilometres.  Metres I always think of as being yards.  Kilogrammes are just as bad.  One kilogram equals a bag of sugar (2.2 lbs) - that's ok.  But how heavy is 23 kg ?  I can't immediately visualise that weight at all - have to stop and think about it.

LJ

[BeeMaster2]

When I was in school we had to learn the metric system because the US was supposed to switch to it way back then. Politicians were scared to death to force the switch 50 years ago and have been ever since.
I liked the metric system. Conversions and measurements are much easier than the English system.
Jim

[Michael Bush]

I space my frames 1 1/4" (32mm) and I like my top bars anywhere between 3/4" (19mm) and 1" (25mm).  If it weren't for common dimensions of lumber (one bys are 3/4") I would say 7/8" to 15/16" would be ideal, but 3/4" works fine.  The space between the combs is determined by the thickness of brood comb which is determined by cell size not by the width of the top bar.  I've seen people use skewers for a top bar with no frame and the bees will, of course, leave a beespace between the combs if it's honey and they will leave whatever is left between brood combs.  If the combs are spaced 1 1/4" (32mm) then the gap between the combs will be between 1/4" (6.4mm) and 3/16" (9.6mm) usually.  Since a one by is 3/4" I would make the top bars 3/4" wide...

[Eric Bosworth]

Not guilty. 

The metre was originally defined by the French in 1793 as one ten-millionth of the distance from the equator to the North Pole - but then somebody noticed that the Earth isn't a true sphere, and so several generations of metal bars of that length were duly made as a practical reference - eventually culminating in one made from 90% platinum and 10% iridium, the original being kept at S?vres, near Paris. (just one of the thousands of bits of irrelevant information rammed into my skull as a kid.  60 years on and I'm still trying to find a use for quadratic equations ...)

According to Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_metre#International_prototype_metre - a copy of this bar was sent to the US - but maybe somebody lost it ... ?  (or more likely melted it down and sold the metal to Tiffany's)

Personally, I like to use thou's for fine precision; millimetres for measurements from (say) 1/20" to 2"; inches from then-on upwards, to feet, yards and miles.
Never did get the hang of several tens of centimetres, or kilometres.  Metres I always think of as being yards.  Kilogrammes are just as bad.  One kilogram equals a bag of sugar (2.2 lbs) - that's ok.  But how heavy is 23 kg ?  I can't immediately visualise that weight at all - have to stop and think about it.

LJ

I think you missed my point. I would rather use the metric system. My foot is not a foot long. What is the deal with 12 inches in a foot? and 3 feet in a yard. Give me a system based on 10 anyday... And don't get me started on time either...

[little john]

I think you missed my point.

Miss it ?   Sure did - by a mile ...

My assumption of what you were referring to as 'crazy' was based on the dozens of posts I've read over the years from your fellow countrymen which were fiercely protective of the Imperial System of measurement (for which we are guilty as charged).

Although our old LSD (Pounds, Shillings and Pence) system was barmy beyond belief - and changing over was a bit of a hiccup at the time - I'm pleased we did. But, I remain very fond of inches, feet and miles as simple units - I guess it's just a case of what you've been brought up with.  It's when I'm faced with a non-unit measurement such as a 17/64th of an inch, that I think metric is a far better system to use.

LJ (who still drives on the left ...)

[Eric Bosworth]

I think you missed my point.

Miss it ?   Sure did - by a mile ...

My assumption of what you were referring to as 'crazy' was based on the dozens of posts I've read over the years from your fellow countrymen which were fiercely protective of the Imperial System of measurement (for which we are guilty as charged).

Although our old LSD (Pounds, Shillings and Pence) system was barmy beyond belief - and changing over was a bit of a hiccup at the time - I'm pleased we did. But, I remain very fond of inches, feet and miles as simple units - I guess it's just a case of what you've been brought up with.  It's when I'm faced with a non-unit measurement such as a 17/64th of an inch, that I think metric is a far better system to use.

LJ (who still drives on the left ...)

You missed it by 1.60934 kilometers

Left is a verb with the usage, "You got in your car and left your home." Those of us in the states drive in the right side of the road. Therefore you must drive on the wrong side of the road.
My father is wrong handed. He complains when I call him wrong handed.

Why my countrymen defend the imperial system is beyond me. I think it has everything to do with the fear of change. As a computer geek by trade, the only constant in my job is change so I am used to it. I did hear something at one time that makes sense. It had to do with the cost industry retooling every piece of industrial equipment to make it metric. I do get that. But I don't see why as things slowly get replaced when they wear out why can't they replace them with metric equipment.

[Michael Bush]

When I was in grade school they tried to prepare us for the metric system.  They did this by making us convert back and forth... by hand... on paper.  The end result of this was to convince us that the metric system was very complicated and a lot of work.  Of course this is not true.  When I took chemistry and physics, of course, we did everything in metric and it was simple.  We just measured it with metric instruments...  When the law was about to go into effect that we HAD to go on the metric system, I was working as a carpenter.  The old carpenter I worked with was saying how much work it was going to be to convert all of the measurements back and forth.  I tried to explain to him, you just buy a metric ruler and measure everything in metric and the blueprints, once we all go to metric, will all be done in metric.  There is no converting back and forth.  As it is just doing imperial without converting to metric, I'm constantly converting fractional inches into decimal inches to do math and then changing back after the math.  Or feet into fractional feet and then converting to inches... It is a real pain.  It's also the reason a REAL rafter square has one side with tenths of an inch on it...

They TAUGHT us to hate the metric system by how they tried to teach it.

[Eric Bosworth]

When I was in grade school they tried to prepare us for the metric system.  They did this by making us convert back and forth... by hand... on paper.  The end result of this was to convince us that the metric system was very complicated and a lot of work.  Of course this is not true.  When I took chemistry and physics, of course, we did everything in metric and it was simple.  We just measured it with metric instruments...  When the law was about to go into effect that we HAD to go on the metric system, I was working as a carpenter.  The old carpenter I worked with was saying how much work it was going to be to convert all of the measurements back and forth.  I tried to explain to him, you just buy a metric ruler and measure everything in metric and the blueprints, once we all go to metric, will all be done in metric.  There is no converting back and forth.  As it is just doing imperial without converting to metric, I'm constantly converting fractional inches into decimal inches to do math and then changing back after the math.  Or feet into fractional feet and then converting to inches... It is a real pain.  It's also the reason a REAL rafter square has one side with tenths of an inch on it...

They TAUGHT us to hate the metric system by how they tried to teach it.

With us they just didn't do that. They just taught the metric prefixes. I totally agree with everything you said however. You touched on something that I will respond to in the coffee house.