Allow bees in and out whilst excluding butterflies?

[Buk]

I have a critter cage around my veg plot to exclude pidgeons and other birds, deer, rabbits etc. but also caterpiller pests like Cabbage Whites and it is effective in that.

However, it also excludes bees which I would like to enable and even encourage. I asking here for advice on how.

Bees seem quite adept at manouvering through gaps and crevices that (I think) would be impassable for butterflies.

I'm thinking of say 4 or 5 100mm lengths of say 10mm ID pipe passing through the netting, mounted at 1m off the ground in the vaccinity of a comfrey patch and an Elder tree that are frequently visited by bees.

Would the bees find this access point and use it?

Is there anything I could do to encourage them?

Is there a better solution to letting bees in and out whilst excluding the dreaded CWB?

Thanks.

[iddee]

Replace the netting and cover the plants with powdered lime. It will keep the pests off and raise the PH of the soil when it rains and washes off. Replace the lime as needed.

[Buk]

Replace the netting and cover the plants with powdered lime. It will keep the pests off and raise the PH of the soil when it rains and washes off. Replace the lime as needed.

Not an option; this is a 5m x 7m critter cage covering the entire plot. (Also, the last thing my soil needs if a higher PH.)

There is also the problem of pidgeons/deer/rabbits getting up early after overnight rain.

[Acebird]

Knowing your location might help

[Buk]

Knowing your location might help

I'm in the UK, but I'm not sure how that affects finding a way to let bees in and out of my critter cage without letting the butterflies in?

[The15thMember]

I have a critter cage around my veg plot to exclude pidgeons and other birds, deer, rabbits etc. but also caterpiller pests like Cabbage Whites and it is effective in that.

However, it also excludes bees which I would like to enable and even encourage. I asking here for advice on how.

Bees seem quite adept at manouvering through gaps and crevices that (I think) would be impassable for butterflies.

I'm thinking of say 4 or 5 100mm lengths of say 10mm ID pipe passing through the netting, mounted at 1m off the ground in the vaccinity of a comfrey patch and an Elder tree that are frequently visited by bees.

Would the bees find this access point and use it?

Is there anything I could do to encourage them?

Is there a better solution to letting bees in and out whilst excluding the dreaded CWB?

Thanks.

Welcome to Beemaster, Buk!    As long as you have flowers in the garden that bees like, if you provide openings for them, they will find a way in, although depending on the style of the covering, they may have trouble finding a way out.  The trouble is that bees navigate using the sun, which means that if they enter the cage through a tube, they won't understand that the only way back out is through the tube, they will just fly straight up and attempt to get through the cage.  If the cage was made of the right sized wire mesh that was small enough to admit bees, but large enough to exclude butterflies, it would probably work.  I'm not sure you could modify your existing cage in this manner, but you could probably build a new one that would work like this, or perhaps buy one.  Honey bees can fit easily through 6mm mesh, and smaller native bees will of course have even less trouble, although this size of mesh would exclude larger bumble bees, who can be very beneficial to a garden, since they can buzz pollinate. 

[Ben Framed]

Hi Buk,
We are glad to have you join us! Iddees' answer would be of great help in 'most cases'. (Thanks for that reply iddee). The reason for the request of location as Acebird suggested is, in many circumstances of beekeeping, many times, location plays an important part of what the answer to a question might be, (location does matter in many circumstances and aspects of beekeeping). Knowing the location from where the question comes, is 'sometimes' a great aid when helping answer those questions with a 'proper' answer suited for that location. (Thanks to you also Acebird for the location suggestion).

I hope The15Members' reply was of service to you. Feel free to ask more questions as your needs may arise on this subject or others which may be related, or any other subject in the future which is in the scope of Beemaster. Also; Feel free to join in any conversation that you would like to contribute with your opinions and commentary. We at Beemaster are happy to help when we can, and happy 'you' have joined the Beemaster 'family', all the way from the UK!

Sincerely,

Phillip

[Buk]

Welcome to Beemaster, Buk!    As long as you have flowers in the garden that bees like, if you provide openings for them, they will find a way in, although depending on the style of the covering, they may have trouble finding a way out.  The trouble is that bees navigate using the sun, which means that if they enter the cage through a tube, they won't understand that the only way back out is through the tube, they will just fly straight up and attempt to get through the cage.  If the cage was made of the right sized wire mesh that was small enough to admit bees, but large enough to exclude butterflies, it would probably work.  I'm not sure you could modify your existing cage in this manner, but you could probably build a new one that would work like this, or perhaps buy one.  Honey bees can fit easily through 6mm mesh, and smaller native bees will of course have even less trouble, although this size of mesh would exclude larger bumble bees, who can be very beneficial to a garden, since they can buzz pollinate.

The cage is 7m long, 5m wide and 2.5m high at the apex of the curved roof; and is made from debris netting; and cost far too much to replace.

However, it might be possible to put a small panel of a more open netting somewhere to allow the bees ingress and egress.

I've read that 6mm square netting is sufficient to exclude butterflies.

If that is big enough to allow bees through I may have a solution to my problem.

[Buk]

Hi Buk,
...
We at Beemaster are happy to help when we can, and happy 'you' have joined the Beemaster 'family', all the way from the UK!

Phillip

Thanks Phillip. I went looking for a beekeeping forum and found many, but this one seemed to be one of the more active, with (as best I could tell given my limited knowledge) members with good experience giving authoratative answers.

[Acebird]

The cage is 7m long, 5m wide and 2.5m high at the apex of the curved roof; and is made from debris netting; and cost far too much to replace.

Can I ask why the cage is necessary?

[The15thMember]

The cage is 7m long, 5m wide and 2.5m high at the apex of the curved roof; and is made from debris netting; and cost far too much to replace.

However, it might be possible to put a small panel of a more open netting somewhere to allow the bees ingress and egress.

I've read that 6mm square netting is sufficient to exclude butterflies.

If that is big enough to allow bees through I may have a solution to my problem.

If you want to try this, I would put the 6mm netting right over the plants you'd like them to have access to and make the panel as large as possible.  The curved roof also may help, since by bumping into it repeatedly, it may inadvertently herd them to the place they are able to exit.     

[NigelP]

The cage is 7m long, 5m wide and 2.5m high at the apex of the curved roof; and is made from debris netting; and cost far too much to replace.

However, it might be possible to put a small panel of a more open netting somewhere to allow the bees ingress and egress.

I've read that 6mm square netting is sufficient to exclude butterflies.

If that is big enough to allow bees through I may have a solution to my problem.

I woukdn't even try to allow bees access. They won't find their way out and will likely die attempting to leave. For example, when bees get into my extraction room....as they do.....they try to leave via the windows, which is not the way they gained access in the first place. I use a bee vac to "rescue" them and release them near to their hives.
However, you could try putting a hive inside the netting if pollination is your aim as they won't escape they will return to hive.

Your other choices are to replace the netting with something bees can fly through but CBW butterflies can't (as youve already said too expensive) ...or treat with insecticides........or go around and hand kill the caterpillers before they do too much damage.

[Ben Framed]

NigelP:
"For example, when bees get into my extraction room....as they do"
"I use a bee vac to "rescue" them and release them near to their hives."

Same here..

Phillip

[The15thMember]

I woukdn't even try to allow bees access. They won't find their way out and will likely die attempting to leave. For example, when bees get into my extraction room....as they do.....they try to leave via the windows, which is not the way they gained access in the first place. I use a bee vac to "rescue" them and release them near to their hives.
However, you could try putting a hive inside the netting if pollination is your aim as they won't escape they will return to hive.

Your other choices are to replace the netting with something bees can fly through but CBW butterflies can't (as youve already said too expensive) ...or treat with insecticides........or go around and hand kill the caterpillers before they do too much damage.

Nigel has a good idea.  Managing a hive that doesn't have access to a lot of forage may be difficult though. 

[Buk]

Can I ask why the cage is necessary?

to exclude pidgeons and other birds, deer, rabbits etc.

[Buk]

I woukdn't even try to allow bees access. They won't find their way out and will likely die attempting to leave.

Oh well. Looks like I'll be tickling my beans with a feather then.

[Buk]

If you want to try this, I would put the 6mm netting right over the plants you'd like them to have access to and make the panel as large as possible.  The curved roof also may help, since by bumping into it repeatedly, it may inadvertently herd them to the place they are able to exit.   

The position will vary year on year due to crop rotation requirements.

I was thinking perhaps 2 panels. One low down near the external attractor plants and another in the roof at the high point in the hope they would find it when looking for a way out.

But I'd rather pollinate manually than risk killing the bees.

I also thought about getting/making one of these solitary bee nesters; hanging in the garden this year and moving it inside the cage over the winter so the new bees emerge inside next spring. With a low level panel to access the outside close to the elder tree and comfrey patch...

[The15thMember]

The position will vary year on year due to crop rotation requirements.

I was thinking perhaps 2 panels. One low down near the external attractor plants and another in the roof at the high point in the hope they would find it when looking for a way out.

But I'd rather pollinate manually than risk killing the bees.

I also thought about getting/making one of these solitary bee nesters; hangling in the garden this year and moving it inside the cage over the winter so the new bees emerge inside next spring. With a low level panel to access the outside close to the elder tree and comfrey patch...

That's probably a better idea.  The native bees are often better pollinators than honeys anyway.  Just be sure that you pay attention and do a little bit of research on what bees are nesting in your tubes.  You wouldn't want to move them into your cage and then not have them like the flowers you have planted in there and starve as a result.  Some native bees are generalists, like honey bees, and won't be picky about forage, but some are specialists and will only visit certain flowers.  The native bees will not be aggressive if you watch them at their nests, so don't be afraid to take a close look at them and try to ID them, just to be sure they are the right species for the job you want them to do.  Also, since they will be trapped in there, you will want to be sure they have safe access to water (a shallow dish with stones so they don't drown is fine) and whatever they need to construct their nests, (i.e. mud if they are mason bees).     

[Acebird]

Can I ask why the cage is necessary?

to exclude pidgeons and other birds, deer, rabbits etc.

Put a hive close to the cage and run a pipe through the netting.  Keep an entrance to the outside so the bees can still forage outside the net.

[Buk]

Put a hive close to the cage and run a pipe through the netting.  Keep an entrance to the outside so the bees can still forage outside the net.

Wouldn't previous discussion mean that any bees going through the pipe to the cage would be unlikely to find their way back, and thus die?

(I also do not have the where-withall to purchase/build a hive; purchase a colony; learn to take care of them.)

Update: I guess a behive with two entrance slots one inside and one outside would work. But still, learning beekeeping in order to avoid tickling bean flowers with a paintbrush is a big commitment of time and dwindling grey matter :)

[Buk]

Just be sure that you pay attention and do a little bit of research on what bees are nesting in your tubes. 

I have a minature (20mm cube) motion activated video camera (bought for another purpose that now sits idle) that will record 2 hours of video in 2 minute bursts. Mounted close to the entrance, to avoid it detecting wind induced motion, it might give me a good record of what was visiting.

Also, if I hang a second bee hotel inside the cage in the second year, the new hatchings from the first year would have somewhere to nest without leaving the cage, and maybe I get a self-perpetuating solution?

[The15thMember]

(I also do not have the where-withall to purchase/build a hive; purchase a colony; learn to take care of them.)

Update: I guess a behive with two entrance slots one inside and one outside would work. But still, learning beekeeping in order to avoid tickling bean flowers with a paintbrush is a big commitment of time and dwindling grey matter :)

Thank you for being responsible enough to recognize that.  A lot of people don't view a hive of bees as having the same level of sentiency as they would, say, a puppy.  It leads to a lot of mismanagement and a lot of dead bees, because people just slap them in a box and leave them to fend for themselves. 

Put a hive close to the cage and run a pipe through the netting.  Keep an entrance to the outside so the bees can still forage outside the net.

Wouldn't previous discussion mean that any bees going through the pipe to the cage would be unlikely to find their way back, and thus die?

Bees are oriented to return to their hive entrance by the shortest, straight-line route (a beeline).  If the mesh is intersecting and blocking that beeline, the bees don't know how to go find a way around it, they will just butt their heads into it until they exhaust themselves.  However, if the hive had one entrance that was a pipe leading into your cage, the bees in the cage would return to the pipe, since their beeline would be entirely contained within the netting.  Does that make sense?  Good idea, Ace.   

Just be sure that you pay attention and do a little bit of research on what bees are nesting in your tubes. 

I have a minature (20mm cube) motion activated video camera (bought for another purpose that now sits idle) that will record 2 hours of video in 2 minute bursts. Mounted close to the entrance, to avoid it detecting wind induced motion, it might give me a good record of what was visiting.

Also, if I hang a second bee hotel inside the cage in the second year, the new hatchings from the first year would have somewhere to nest without leaving the cage, and maybe I get a self-perpetuating solution?

As long as they were provided with everything they need (food, water, nesting material), I don't see why not.  And that camera sounds like a great idea! 

[Buk]

As long as they were provided with everything they need (food, water, nesting material), I don't see why not.  And that camera sounds like a great idea! 

Providing a shallow tray, half covered in pebbles and half with dirt, topped up with water to half cover the pebbles and keep the dirt/mud moist is no problem and covers the water/nesting materials (for mason bees at least. Presumable leaf cutter bees would find enough material in a veg patch for their needs?).

That leaves food. Before and after the crops provide sufficient pollen and nectar for the bees; would a shallow container of sugar water (what ratio?) provide food for the rest if the year?

[The15thMember]

Providing a shallow tray, half covered in pebbles and half with dirt, topped up with water to half cover the pebbles and keep the dirt/mud moist is no problem and covers the water/nesting materials (for mason bees at least. Presumable leaf cutter bees would find enough material in a veg patch for their needs?).

I imagine that would be fine.  Some masons and leafcutters are particular about their materials, but many are less so, and I imagine most would be able to adapt to whatever you provide.  Leafcutters sometimes prefer material that is a little bit thicker, which is why they love rose petals.  I have a ground cover called Creeping Jenny that my leafcutters hole punch all summer!    Some masons will only use native dirt, or prefer a particular consistency of mud, so there could be a little bit of trial and error figuring out what they like, but I can't imagine they'd be picky enough for the whole thing to fail if you didn't have it exactly right. 

That leaves food. Before and after the crops provide sufficient pollen and nectar for the bees; would a shallow container of sugar water (what ratio?) provide food for the rest if the year?

Keep in mind that solitary bees are usually not active as long as honey bees or bumble bees are.  Since the adults only live for one season, and aren't living in a large, temperature controlled hive, many are not active deep into fall, and many species are only active for a few weeks in the spring or summer, when their favorite flowers are blooming.  Put your first tubes out when your first garden flowers are blooming, and leave them up for as long as you have flowers in your garden, because you want to be sure you are catching bees that are active when your flowers are.  Definitely plant extra forage crops in your garden (and we can help you with recommendations for good nectar and pollen plants), so there isn't too much competition and you have a little bit of a buffer around your bloom times.  Just like with honey bees, sugar is a good emergency feed, if something doesn't go as planned, but it's far better for the bees nutritionally to have real nectar.  There isn't a lot of information about feeding other bees sugar water, so I'd be hesitant to do it, but it would be better than having them starve.     

[Buk]

Thankyou The15thMember for your openmindedness.; it is a rare commidity these days.

I will construct my bee hotel  -- complete with entrance  surveillance camera -- this coming week.

I'll include 6/8/10/12mm tubes in the hope of enticing a wide veriety of tenants.


If I tilt the dish containing the pebbles and (local) dirt at a (say) 7 ndegree angle, then capillary action should provide a fair spread of consitencies of mud.

I can easily plant a bush Rose, or  Box plant; or any other plantthat wull provide leaf-cutter material. Just a case of determining which is reuired her. Ie. More local research.

More difficult (for me) is what sugar/water ratio will ensure they do not starve for lack of accessible food?

[The15thMember]

Thankyou The15thMember for your openmindedness.; it is a rare commidity these days.

Thanks.    Thank you again for being a responsible bee manager.  I feel confident they will be in good hands.  Hopefully it will all work out, and the bees will have an easy pampered life in your little garden. 

I will construct my bee hotel  -- complete with entrance  surveillance camera -- this coming week.

I'll include 6/8/10/12mm tubes in the hope of enticing a wide veriety of tenants.


If I tilt the dish containing the pebbles and (local) dirt at a (say) 7 ndegree angle, then capillary action should provide a fair spread of consitencies of mud.

I can easily plant a bush Rose, or  Box plant; or any other plantthat wull provide leaf-cutter material. Just a case of determining which is reuired her. Ie. More local research.

Sounds awesome!  Please keep us posted, I'm very curious to see how this experiment turns out. 

More difficult (for me) is what sugar/water ratio will ensure they do not starve for lack of accessible food?

Well, I'm not really sure.  On the one hand, nectar is very dilute.  For example, in America we feed wild hummingbirds 1:4 syrup.  On the other hand, for emergency feed we often feed honey bees 2:1, but then they are used to eating honey, which is very concentrated, and not just nectar.  Perhaps you could look up and see if commercial mason or leafcutter keepers ever feed their bees and if so, what concentration they use. 

[Acebird]

(I also do not have the where-withall to purchase/build a hive; purchase a colony; learn to take care of them.)

Sorry, I made an assumption that you came to a honeybee forum with the intention of having bees.  Butterflies lay their eggs on specific plants.  If you are not into pesticides then just pick off the caterpillars.  Or remove the cage and nature will take care of most of them.  I would still have a rabbit fence and maybe use deer netting.

[Buk]

Butterflies lay their eggs on specific plants. 

Not if they cannot get to them. The cage stays.

[Buk]

Sorry, I made an assumption that you came to a honeybee forum with the intention of having bees.

My system works. It excludes  pretty much every critter that can damage my crops. Bar a few tiny flies (blackfly etc.).

The downside is I have to manually pollinate those crops -- beans, peas, courgettes, tomatoes -- that require it.

If I can find a way -- which I think I may have -- of allowing the bees in (and out) without letting the lepidopteras in,
I benefit not needing to do the time consuming process manual pollination;
and the bees benefit from having additional sources of nectar that would otherwise go to waste.

But how to do that without harming the bees? Where's the best place to ask? A bee forum.

[The15thMember]

But how to do that without harming the bees? Where's the best place to ask? A bee forum.

ABSOLUTELY.  We are more than willing to answer any questions about bees from anyone who has questions, regardless of whether they have bees or ever intend to.  And not only questions about honey bees, but all the other bees too.  Anyone out there who may be perusing this forum, whether you are having a problem concerning bees or you are simply here out of curiosity alone, PLEASE don't hesitate to ask us anything that may be on your mind.  If you have an ID request for a pollinator, if you want information about purchasing real quality local honey, if you would like to know how to help the bees that live in your area, if you are interested in working with beeswax, if you have questions about pollinator-friendly gardening and lawn care, A-NY-THING.  There is no such thing as a dumb question.  We love to talk about anything relating to our little buzzy friends. 

[Ben Framed]

I think there has been a slight bit of miscommunication.
Heres what I an thinking, you have no Honeybees? But you appreciate honeybees visiting your garden? At the same time, you wish to keep butterflies out from you garden, while letting honeybees visit and pollinate? I do not thinks Acebird meant any offense. I am thinking he just assumed you had, or wished to have honeybees, and when he realized you did not,  he switched gears and went on with answers that he though might befit your program. 

Phillip

[Michael Bush]

If they managed to get in, I'm afraid it will act as a bee trap.  They are unlikely to find their way back out.

[Acebird]

If they managed to get in, I'm afraid it will act as a bee trap.  They are unlikely to find their way back out.

I certainly didn't mean any offence and I agree with Michael.  If there is not a hive involved then any bee that gets in the cage will perish.  Those who do not want to have bees but want the benefit of pollination pay someone to use their hives for that purpose.  Payment can be bartered for a small operation.
Unless you are willing to rescreen the whole cage I would forget sieving out the unwanted.
I am thankful you came to a bee forum.  I am hopeful you take the advice.

[The15thMember]

I think we are past the idea of allowing bees in and out of the cage.  Does anyone have any thoughts about Buk maintaining a population of solitary bees entirely within the caged garden? 

[Michael Bush]

Drill lots of different sized holes from 1/16" up to 1/4" in some old sections of a big tree and leave them outside of the fenced in space.  After the solitary bees find it and fill some of the holes, next year put it in the garden inside the space.

[The15thMember]

Drill lots of different sized holes from 1/16" up to 1/4" in some old sections of a big tree and leave them outside of the fenced in space.  After the solitary bees find it and fill some of the holes, next year put it in the garden inside the space.

I drilled some pieces of native wood for solitary bees just a few weeks ago.  I've only ever done straws and natural canes before now, but my dad had some interesting chucks of trees laying around that looked like they would be good for nests.  There were masons checking out the holes by the next day!

[Buk]

Drill lots of different sized holes from 1/16" up to 1/4" in some old sections of a big tree and leave them outside of the fenced in space.  After the solitary bees find it and fill some of the holes, next year put it in the garden inside the space.

This is what I came up with. The tubes are rolled paper 150mm long and varying in diameter from ~4mm to ~10mm.

I intend to hang it on a fencepost facing South in  the sunniest spot in my garden. (I'll also mount my motion activated camera to keep an eye onl visitors.

[Michael Bush]

The tubes work.  So does holes in wood.  If you do the holes, drill them as deep as you can.  They start with males and finish with females, so the female proportion is higher with deeper holes.

[Buk]

So does holes in wood.  If you do the holes, drill them as deep as you can.

That's partly why I went with paper tubes. The longest of my drills is only 120mm; and that the 10mm. The smaller diameters are shorter.

Also, all the advice I've read on the positioning bee hotels suggests the should be between waist and shoulder height. If the lump of wood has any weight to it, I would not be able to suspend it inside my cage easily. Maybe next year, if it works I buy some longer drills and put together a log on legs for the following year.

[Buk]

My bee hotel is positioned and appears to be attracting attention.

I've noticed a lot of (very large) bumble bees that (to my uneducated eyes) appear to be investigating my garden for nesting sites.
(There are no flowers (at all) here at the moment; and they seem to be nosing around any dark areas and crevices.
In the past I have blocked off a couple of gaps in the brickwork of my house to prevent bumblebees nesting there. )

Q: Could I create some kind of nest place (underground) with two entrances -- one outside and one inside the criter cage -- that would be attrative to bumblebees?

If this is a possible, non-harmful idea; what might that look like?

[BeeMaster2]

Bum,
Are they bumblebees or are they carpenter bees?
Bumblebees build their nests in voids, sometimes in the ground and sometimes in bird houses or other voids. Carpenter bees cut holes in wood and lay their eggs in the holes. Sometimes they will use existing holes and make them longer.
Jim Altmiller

[Buk]

Those who do not want to have bees but want the benefit of pollination pay someone to use their hives for that purpose.  Payment can be bartered for a small operation.
Unless you are willing to rescreen the whole cage I would forget sieving out the unwanted.

I'm not into bees.

Intellectually, I am aware of their value to society as a whole and the hard time that anthropomorphic changes are giving them;
I appreciate them and their invaluable contribution to my existence.

But, I'm not 'into' them.

In part, my negativity may arise as a consequence of a couple of events in my life.


1) as a 9 y/o I was playing sword-fighting game with a few of my mates when we disturbed a wild bee nest and we got stung badly.
I spent 3 days in hospital in agony as a result. One of my mates, who it turned out was allergic, was there much longer.

2) As a teenager, I was in the back of a small van (Reliant Robin) making a journey to work one summer morning when a bee flew in a cracked window.
The driver, Richard, was one of those people with an irrational fear of all things stingy, and he panicked.

End result: A shallow bank at the side of the road; a huge amount of shattered fiberglass; and 3 months in hospital with a broken femure, collapsed lung; a hairline skull fracture and concussion.
Richard and the other guy, Tommy, both died.

I appreciate bees and their value; but my instinctive fear is not irrational.

I am thankful you came to a bee forum.  I am hopeful you take the advice.

Would I have bothered coming and asking if I did not care about the answers or outcome?

[Acebird]

Would I have bothered coming and asking if I did not care about the answers or outcome?

It is not uncommon.  Some people join discussions only to support their initial idea.  If you are not one of them then my hat goes off to you.

[The15thMember]

My bee hotel is positioned and appears to be attracting attention.

I've noticed a lot of (very large) bumble bees that (to my uneducated eyes) appear to be investigating my garden for nesting sites.
(There are no flowers (at all) here at the moment; and they seem to be nosing around any dark areas and crevices.
In the past I have blocked off a couple of gaps in the brickwork of my house to prevent bumblebees nesting there. )

Q: Could I create some kind of nest place (underground) with two entrances -- one outside and one inside the criter cage -- that would be attrative to bumblebees?

If this is a possible, non-harmful idea; what might that look like?

Hey Buk!  Thanks so much for keeping us updated on your project.  I've never made a bumble bee nest box, although I'd like to try it.  It can be tricky to get bumbles to nest in artificial nests, as they can be quite picky about them.  They would be a great benefit to your garden though, as bumbles can reach into deep flowers that smaller bees can't access, and they can buzz pollinate, which some plants really benefit from.  Here's a link from a reputable source about building a box.  https://www.beesinyourbackyard.com/post/how-to-make-a-bumble-bee-house

Bum,
Are they bumblebees or are they carpenter bees?
Bumblebees build their nests in voids, sometimes in the ground and sometimes in bird houses or other voids. Carpenter bees cut holes in wood and lay their eggs in the holes. Sometimes they will use existing holes and make them longer.
Jim Altmiller

Carpenters and bumbles can be difficult to tell apart.  I'm not familiar with your bees in the UK, but if you could manage to get a good picture (not an easy task with bees!) I could try and help you with an ID.  Carpenters have the same pollination benefits as bumbles, but your setup may be too small to house them, since they nest in a similar manner to the tube-nesting bees and would have to be trapped inside your garden, which is probably too confining for a bee their size. 

I'm not into bees.

Intellectually, I am aware of their value to society as a whole and the hard time that anthropomorphic changes are giving them;
I appreciate them and their invaluable contribution to my existence.

But, I'm not 'into' them.

In part, my negativity may arise as a consequence of a couple of events in my life.


1) as a 9 y/o I was playing sword-fighting game with a few of my mates when we disturbed a wild bee nest and we got stung badly.
I spent 3 days in hospital in agony as a result. One of my mates, who it turned out was allergic, was there much longer.

2) As a teenager, I was in the back of a small van (Reliant Robin) making a journey to work one summer morning when a bee flew in a cracked window.
The driver, Richard, was one of those people with an irrational fear of all things stingy, and he panicked.

End result: A shallow bank at the side of the road; a huge amount of shattered fiberglass; and 3 months in hospital with a broken femure, collapsed lung; a hairline skull fracture and concussion.
Richard and the other guy, Tommy, both died.

I appreciate bees and their value; but my instinctive fear is not irrational.

Sorry to hear about these bad experiences you've had, especially your friends you lost.  I understand that stinging insects aren't for everyone, and thank you for being willing to work with these bees in spite of any misgivings you may have about them personally.  I do just want to reiterate, in case I didn't strongly enough before, that the solitary bees are not territorial and will in no way bother you, even if you were to stick your nose right up to their nests.  The only way to be stung by them would be to grab one and trap it in your hand, and even then, they might not jab you. 

The bumbles, as a social colony like honey bees, can be territorial about their nests, although usually not to the level honey bees are, since their nests are less rigidly organized and MUCH smaller than a honey bee colony.  In fact, I'm not even sure that bumble bees will mount a concerted defense like a honey bee colony will, but I have been stung by a bumble bee before, whereas I've never been stung by a tube-nester or a carpenter, and yes, I have put my nose right up to them!  You would want to put the entrances to the bumble bee nest somewhere where you aren't likely to get into it, and the bees aren't flying right out into a walking path or something of that nature, just to be safe.   

[Buk]

Bum,

You talkin' to me? 

Are they bumblebees or are they carpenter bees?

Definitely bumblebees. According to google "Are carpenter bees rare in UK? Distribution: Found in wooded areas in Europe, but a rare vagrant to the UK. "

We have several different types of bumblebee locally.

Going by the coloration (nearly all black) of those I've seen around my garden recently, they are either Ruderal or perhaps Red-tail;
and going by their size, probably queens looking for nest sites.

[Buk]

Sorry to hear about these bad experiences you've had, especially your friends you lost.  I understand that stinging insects aren't for everyone, and thank you for being willing to work with these bees in spite of any misgivings you may have about them personally.  I do just want to reiterate, in case I didn't strongly enough before, that the solitary bees are not territorial and will in no way bother you, even if you were to stick your nose right up to their nests.  The only way to be stung by them would be to grab one and trap it in your hand, and even then, they might not jab you. 

I'm fine around individual bees outside -- I even get up close to photograph them if they'll sit still long enough -- but the idea of messing with them on mass holds no appeal at all.

[The15thMember]

Bum,

You talkin' to me? 

Hahaha! 

Definitely bumblebees. According to google "Are carpenter bees rare in UK? Distribution: Found in wooded areas in Europe, but a rare vagrant to the UK. "

We have several different types of bumblebee locally.

Going by the coloration (nearly all black) of those I've seen around my garden recently, they are either Ruderal or perhaps Red-tail;
and going by their size, probably queens looking for nest sites.

You have all black bumble bees where you live?!  They are so pretty!    I don't think we have any black bumbles in the US, although we do have some all black carpenters.  But where I live we only have yellow and black species. 

I'm fine around individual bees outside -- I even get up close to photograph them if they'll sit still long enough -- but the idea of messing with them on mass holds no appeal at all.

You mean this doesn't look fun to you?! 
https://abcnews.go.com/International/man-underpants-covers-11-million-bees-sets-world/story?id=31321278

[Buk]

You mean this doesn't look fun to you?! 
https://abcnews.go.com/International/man-underpants-covers-11-million-bees-sets-world/story?id=31321278

You ever seen any of those youtube vids of teens doing stupid things for hits? You know, like riding a skateboard over a ramp aimed directly at a gorse bush or cactus patch wearing nothing but a pair of sneakers and speedos.

Despite my misgivings about the value of stupidity; it seems infinitely preferable! :)

I got 23 stings as a 9 y/o; that guys took "over 2000"! All to get his name in a book that nobody reads anymore; and the few that do say: "Stupid sod"!

If I ever feel then need to immortalise myself in that book, maybe I'll challenge this guys record. {ouch}

[salvo]

Hi Folks, Hi Buk,

I'm laffin MAO! This should be in the humor section. Buk. please stop right here if you ...

I searched on *Tickle my bean with a feather.* I got an attractive young lady, with several multi coloured feathers, making tickle sounds.

It's funny,... and it's not dirty. Eleven minutes though.....

https://youtu.be/NOY2HfwO99k

Now! About that *Reliant Robin*! Had you said Hillman Minx I would have taken you seriously....

Bwahahahaha!

Thanks Buk, to you and all our responders.

Sal