Beemaster's International Beekeeping Forum

MEMBER & GUEST INTERACTION SECTION => THE 2ND AMENDMENT => Topic started by: iddee on October 19, 2016, 10:49:52 pm

Title: Why Grandpa carries a gun: PS. I'm grandpa
Post by: iddee on October 19, 2016, 10:49:52 pm
Why Grandpa carries a gun:

My old Grandpa said to me, 'Son, there comes a time in every man's life when he stops bustin' knuckles and starts bustin' caps and usually it's when he becomes too old to take a whoopin'.'
 
I don't carry a gun to kill people; I carry a gun to keep from being killed.
 
I don't carry a gun because I'm evil; I carry a gun because I have lived long enough to see the evil in the World.
 
I don't carry a gun because I hate the government; I carry a gun because I understand the limitations of government.
 
I don't carry a gun because I'm angry; I carry a gun so that I don't have to spend the rest of my life hating myself for failing to be prepared.
 
I don't carry a gun because I want to shoot someone; I carry a gun because I want to die at a ripe old age in my bed and not on a sidewalk somewhere tomorrow afternoon.
 
I don't carry a gun to make me feel like a man; I carry a gun because men know how to take care of themselves and the ones they love.
 
I don't carry a gun because I feel inadequate; I carry a gun because unarmed and facing three armed thugs, I am inadequate.
 
I don't carry a gun because I love it; I carry a gun because I love life and the people who make it meaningful to me.
 
Police protection is an oxymoron: Free citizens must protect themselves because police cannot protect you from crime; they investigate the crime after it happens and then call someone in to clean up the mess.
 
Personally, I carry a gun because I'm too young to die and too old to take a whoopin'!
 
A LITTLE GUN HISTORY
PLEASE DON'T THINK FOR A MOMENT, THAT THIS COULDN'T HAPPEN IN OUR COUNTRY ALSO.
 
In 1929, the Soviet Union established gun control: From 1929 to 1953, about 20 million dissidents, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.
In 1911, Turkey established gun control: From 1915 to 1917, 1.5 million Armenians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.
Germany established gun control in 1938: From 1939 to 1945, a total of 13 million Jews and others who were  unable to defend themselves were rounded up and exterminated.
China established gun control in 1935: From 1948 to 1952, 20 million political dissidents, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.
Guatemala established gun control in 1964: From 1964 to 1981, 100,000 Mayan Indians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.
-----------------------
Uganda established gun control in 1970: From 1971 to 1979, 300,000 Christians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.
-----------------------
Cambodia established gun control in 1956: From 1975 to 1977, one million educated people, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.
 
56 million defenseless people were rounded up and exterminated in the 20th Century because of gun control.
 
You won't see this data on the US evening news, or hear politicians disseminating this information.
 
Guns in the hands of honest citizens save lives and property and, yes, gun-control laws adversely affect only the law-abiding citizens.
 
With guns, we are 'citizens'; without them, we are 'subjects'.
 
During WW II, the Japanese decided not to invade America because they knew most Americans were ARMED!
 
Gun owners in the USA are the largest armed forces in the World!
 
If you value your freedom, please spread this anti-gun control message to all of your friends.
 
The purpose of fighting is to win. There is no possible victory in defense.
 
The sword is more important than the shield and skill is more important than either.
 
SWITZERLAND ISSUES A GUN TO EVERY HOUSEHOLD!  SWITZERLAND 'S GOVERNMENT ISSUES AND TRAINS EVERY ADULT IN THE USE OF A RIFLE. SWITZERLAND HAS THE LOWEST GUN RELATED CRIME RATE OF ANY CIVILIZED COUNTRY IN THE WORLD.
 
IT'S A NO BRAINER! DON'T LET OUR GOVERNMENT WASTE MILLIONS OF OUR TAX DOLLARS IN AN EFFORT TO MAKE ALL LAW-ABIDING CITIZENS AN EASY TARGET.
 
I'm a firm believer in the 2nd Amendment! If you are too, please forward this. If you're not a believer, please reconsider the true facts. This is history; not what's being shown on TV, sanctioned by our illustrious delusional leaders in Washington.
Title: Re: Why Grandpa carries a gun: PS. I'm grandpa
Post by: Acebird on October 20, 2016, 09:30:31 am
I am a firm believer in the second amendment too but I don't see a reason for any law abiding citizen to own a stock of personal war machines and have virtually no means of preventing them from getting in the hands of those that are not law abiding.
We had a system of everybody wielding a gun in this country (the wild, wild, west).  That era wasn't so grand for some people and it was far from a low crime rate.  We had an era of bootlegging gangsters which still exists today in the form of street gangs and drug lords.  Your personal weapons will only get you killed and maybe some of your neighbors if you try to take on these gangs.
England doesn't have cases where cops shoot unarmed citizens because the street cop doesn't carry a gun.
Do you honestly believe you can defend yourself against the evils of the world without some form of government force?  Are we civilized or are we not?

If our government wants to wage war on the citizens of the United States it is not going to be a gun battle, it is going to be a massacre like Syria.  What foreign country is going to come to the aid of american citizens if this massacre should occur?

The second amendment has no bearing on the protection of its citizens against our own government.  It is simply a privilege for law abiding citizens to own a fire arm (not a war machine).  The privilege is taken away when the citizen becomes a criminal.  Unfortunately when there are no controls or not enough controls policing the criminals so they don't get firearms becomes impossible.  That is where we are now.
Title: Re: Why Grandpa carries a gun: PS. I'm grandpa
Post by: Michael Bush on October 20, 2016, 11:57:32 am
>We had a system of everybody wielding a gun in this country (the wild, wild, west).  That era wasn't so grand for some people and it was far from a low crime rate.

Quite simply not true.  It was one of the most peaceful times of our history.  People didn't lock their doors.  Crime was rare.  Western movies need a bad guy, so the screen writers  invent them.

Title: Re: Why Grandpa carries a gun: PS. I'm grandpa
Post by: Kathyp on October 20, 2016, 12:24:06 pm
Quote
The second amendment has no bearing on the protection of its citizens against our own government.  It is simply a privilege for law abiding citizens to own a fire arm (not a war machine).  The privilege is taken away when the citizen becomes a criminal.  Unfortunately when there are no controls or not enough controls policing the criminals so they don't get firearms becomes impossible.  That is where we are now.

First, it is not a privilege, it is a right.  It can be revoked under certain circumstances, as can any right.

Quote
England doesn't have cases where cops shoot unarmed citizens because the street cop doesn't carry a gun.

England also has had cases where they could not respond rapidly to a nut with a gun because they had no armed police.  yes, nuts get guns in England....

Quote
Do you honestly believe you can defend yourself against the evils of the world without some form of government force?  Are we civilized or are we not?

Civilization can depend on a number of things.  1. would be a shared moral/belief code.  We no longer have that.  It can also depend on government force.  We are getting more of that. 
While I am happy to pay for police, my safety does not depend on them.  They respond after an event.  My safety depends on those around me being civilized and following the laws, whether they be laws by the government or the laws of our shared moral code.  Since we know that people don't follow the laws and we know that police respond to what has already happened, I must be prepared to fill in that gap by being able to protect myself.

Quote
If our government wants to wage war on the citizens of the United States it is not going to be a gun battle, it is going to be a massacre like Syria.

Perhaps, but they will face one heck of an insurgency, won't they? 

You point out that the problem is with the criminals.  If I have a whole war arsenal in my safe and I am not a criminal, what difference does my arsenal make to you?  If I am a criminal, the law already says I can't be armed...but I ignore the law....because I am a criminal and don't care what it says.

Title: Re: Why Grandpa carries a gun: PS. I'm grandpa
Post by: gww on October 20, 2016, 12:30:41 pm
If I was worried for some reason, I would carry a gun wether leagal or not.  This being the case, I would rather laws not be made that make me illiegal.  If the govenrment decided to take me on, I would lose because my gun is not as big as their gun and they use my money to buy their gun and so can get the best.  They are also more organized then an antisocial hermit can be.

I have not bought a new gun since they made waiting periods and registration and back ground checks.  It is not that I could not pass a back ground check but more that I am too lazy to mess with all the hassel.  I am hopeing they don't pass laws that don't allow me to buy or sell or trade guns only with government involvement cause then I will be a criminal in just one more fassion where I am not one now cause in the end I will do what I want although not in as open of a fassion as I do now.

I agree that police can not protect people but are more of a pick up the peices and try for justice after the fact type of justice type service.  It has to be this way in an innocent untill proven guilty type of sociaty.   I don't think I will win in a confrontation with a criminal just cause I have a gun.  The criminal gets to pick when and how far he is willing to go before he commits his act and since my goal is to be nice and cause no harm, I would already be at a dissadvantage because I would want to be sure I was doing the right thing.  I still like to keep my guns for the one time that they might help.

I don't believe in trigger lock laws and safe laws and it is not imposible that my grandkids could reach where a gun might be.  If there was an accidental shooting I would hate myself forever but like all things in a free sociaty, I decide the risk to benefits of my acctions and then trust for it to work out.

There are bad poeple out there and they do not care about laws and if they steal my gun and use it badly there is no real protection from them.  They could have been a pedifile and stole my child.  Bad people are bad no matter what the rules.  I just don't want to be a bad person also because I feel the need at times to protect myself.   And I would be a bad person if the law made me one if I was scared enough that I felt I needed to be.  I have gotten drawn into stressful situations before.  One time at midnite a girl knocked on my door and said her boyfriend threw her out of his truck.  I didn't know what his feelings were but knew I was in the middle of it though no fault of my own.  It was nice to have a 1911 45 cal that pit perfectly in the pit of my back.  I thank god that no situation has ever drew me in so far that I have to live with the consiquences of either using the gun or losing cause I didn't use it.  But I do reconize stuff happens and know I mostly want to do good and feel I shouldn't be made a criminal when I make desissions that I see no other choice but to make.

I don't pretent to have answers on how to handle those who are motivated to do bad.  I think to live in a sociaty of freedom that it brings risk but is worth it.  I believe on the police that are killing citizens the same thing that ace mentioned with proabition in the 20s is also causing the same types of problims proabition on drugs cause today.

Cop don't need to hit a house at midnite and use flash bombs so they can serve a drug inforcement warrent.  I remember growing up and having 2 police in my town and one cop car and the cops would walk dow mainstreet and check buisness doors.  The population is close today to what it was then but we now probly have 10 cops and 6 cars.  You tell me what might be a real problim and which caused which.  Was it that people got that much worse or that having that many cops sorta causes a war.

I don't know but know when we only had two cops it didn't seem that bad out there.

Cheers
gww
Title: Re: Why Grandpa carries a gun: PS. I'm grandpa
Post by: Psparr on October 20, 2016, 12:49:49 pm
Acebird you are completely misguided when you state that the second amendment has no bearing on the protection of its citizens against its own government.

THAT IS PRECISELY WHAT IT WAS INTENDED FOR.

The founders came from a tyrannical government and knew ours could very well follow that same path. Hence the second amendment.

Please watch this video. It's humorous but also very informative. https://youtu.be/pAfcaO_wtII
Title: Re: Why Grandpa carries a gun: PS. I'm grandpa
Post by: Acebird on October 20, 2016, 01:39:14 pm
THAT IS PRECISELY WHAT IT WAS INTENDED FOR.

You honestly believe the second amendment gives you an edge against the federal government?  Your delusional.

The forefathers gave the right to bear arms because foreign governments were hiring Indians to do their dirty work.  They also needed a way to hunt for food.  Were slaves allowed to have guns?  No.  Did the federal government ever attack its citizens?  Yes they did.  Did the second amendment help them that were under attack.  No it did not.
Title: Re: Why Grandpa carries a gun: PS. I'm grandpa
Post by: Psparr on October 20, 2016, 01:55:27 pm
 The great thing about the second amendment is that it will not be needed until they try to take it" Thomas Jefferson

The Bill of rights was added to protect the American people from our newly formed government from becoming like the British government. Remember when Obama said it's a document of "negative liberties"? He got one thing right when he said it tells us what the government can't do, not what it should do for us. Why would the second amendment be a constitutional right if it were just to keep a few Indians at bay?  Seems a law would have sufficed.
Title: Re: Why Grandpa carries a gun: PS. I'm grandpa
Post by: Kathyp on October 20, 2016, 03:15:58 pm
Quote
You honestly believe the second amendment gives you an edge against the federal government?  Your delusional.

You miss the point.  It's not about having the edge.  I may not have the edge over a criminal either.  It is about having the right to protect myself and yes, to give my government pause if they ever decide they want to take me on.  I might lose, but I will not lose passively.  It is worth noting that if we were keeping our federal government within the bounds of the constitution, this conversation would not be happening.  Because my government has chosen to over step and it has become apparent that the voting public can't/won't constrain them, then I must consider all possibilities. 
While taking on my government in some kind of war is not the first thing on my mind, I think about all the people around the world who did not have government oppression on their minds, and yet became oppressed by their government.  It can happen.

We have a government right now that has tested the constitution and won against it.  Things that once seems fantasy, now seem more like reality. 

"The right of the citizens to keep and bear arms has justly been considered, as the palladium of the liberties of a republic; since it offers a strong moral check against the usurpation and arbitrary power of rulers; and will generally, even if these are successful in the first instance, enable the people to resist and triumph over them."
- Joseph Story, Commentaries on the Constitution of the United States, 1833
Title: Re: Why Grandpa carries a gun: PS. I'm grandpa
Post by: iddee on October 20, 2016, 05:16:40 pm
The 2nd is not for us to overthrow the government, nor to win a fight with the government. It is to prevent a fight in the beginning. That has been successful for 200 years.
Title: Re: Why Grandpa carries a gun: PS. I'm grandpa
Post by: Acebird on October 20, 2016, 06:03:41 pm
Why would the second amendment be a constitutional right if it were just to keep a few Indians at bay?
Because they didn't have cell phones or the media and the internet.  They were on their own in the middle of nowhere.  They couldn't call for help and have it arrive in time.  The firearm was the one slight advantage they had over the Indian.
Today the world is different.  Nut cases end up with automatic weapons (supposedly locked up) and massacre innocent people.  That could never happen 200 years ago.  The weapons were not that advanced.
Our for fathers would have never given the citizens the right to own and AR-15.  They were aristocratic people who didn't trust the average citizen to vote correctly so they gave the citizen the right to vote for a representative.  The representative then decides whether he (there was no she back then) would agree with the majority.  And that system hasn't changed yet, 200 years later.  So us dummies (what they thought we were) vote for a representative instead of voting directly for a president.
Title: Re: Why Grandpa carries a gun: PS. I'm grandpa
Post by: Kathyp on October 20, 2016, 07:49:27 pm
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Nut cases end up with automatic weapons (supposedly locked up) and massacre innocent people.

I don't know of one nut case or other, with an automatic weapon.

Quote
Our for fathers would have never given the citizens the right to own and AR-15.

on what do you base that?  and what is the difference between an AR-15 and any other semi-auto weapon?

Quote
They were aristocratic people who didn't trust the average citizen to vote correctly so they gave the citizen the right to vote for a representative.  The representative then decides whether he (there was no she back then) would agree with the majority.

That is not the reason for the house and senate.  They are legislative bodies to represent their districts and states.  The founders recognized that straight democracy was mob rule.  The purpose of representatives was to keep mob rule from happening, while giving the people control of their reps.  that's why the congresspeople are re-elected every 2 years. 

The electoral college is designed to give added weight to less populated places.  If not for that, you would have NY and CA making the choice for president each and every time.

As for your assertion that the folks needed guns because they couldn't use a cell phone to call for help against Indian attacks...we now can use a cell phone when under attack.  I submit that the teacher under her desk during the Columbine shooting would have been better served by a Glock than a Samsung. 
Title: Re: Why Grandpa carries a gun: PS. I'm grandpa
Post by: Acebird on October 20, 2016, 09:23:56 pm
I submit that the teacher under her desk during the Columbine shooting would have been better served by a Glock than a Samsung.
Well we don't agree.  The teacher would have been targeted if she had a gun.  These kids where nut cases on a suicidal mission that was well planned.  The fact that they had access to these firearms is indeed the problem.  Whack jobs with unregistered firearms is indeed my concern.
You have a right to drive a car ... it requires a license and registration
You have a right to fish ... it requires a license along with limit rules and species that are in season
You have a right to own a boat ... it requires a registration
You have a right to own a snowmobile ... it requires a registration
You have  a right to hunt ... it requires a license and a season for hunting

But when it come to war machines and armaments you think your hidden safe is good enough.  I don't.  I think it is a liability where almost any fruit cake that has nothing to lose can gain access to your stash and do damage to innocent people.

Title: Re: Why Grandpa carries a gun: PS. I'm grandpa
Post by: iddee on October 20, 2016, 09:36:18 pm
Agreed, any nutcase can gain access to my car or truck, baseball bats. knives, hammers, ETC, and do damage to people. It happens daily. Let's get rid of them all.
Smart thinking, ace.


NOT
Title: Re: Why Grandpa carries a gun: PS. I'm grandpa
Post by: gww on October 20, 2016, 09:54:00 pm
Ace
Had I been the teacher, I would have liked to have a gun.  I know myself well enough to know that I still may have just hid under the desk and not went out and tried to stop them but would have still liked to had a gun for myself if I was stuck there.  I wish I would have went out and took a chance of being targeted if it might have stopped them but can only say that I really don't know that I would have and won't know unless put in that position god forgive.

Your view is that is is self defence to keep everybody with out guns and my view is it is self defence if I have one around.  I understand your view but have lived my life with my view and am more comfortable with mine.  I just don't believe you can stop people with ill will and no fear of being hurt or even worse, intending to be hurt.  I even believe it would be a very lucky thing if my having a gun would have any impact but there are cases.  The guy that stopped a break in and was successful was probably thankfull for the chance to be successful.  I would even go so far as to say that maby more people have been hurt by bad people with bad intent with guns then were saved by them.  I do say though if you were the one successful in defending yourself, You would still be most greatfull for being able to defend yourself.  In the end somebody gets hurt and some one is saved.  If I have the right to defend myself then how I pick to do it is one thing that gives me freedom.  If I freeze and let the guy take my gun and shoot me, that would also be a choice of sorts.  We have to pick our poisen and then live with the consequences
I think that selfdefence puts gun ownership in a differrent catagory then driving hunting and fishing.
Cheers
gww
Ps  I would probly die even with a gun cause I wouldn't want to shoot some teenager that broke into my house just because he was kinda dumb and didn't reconize the danger.  I believe in second chances if they are possible even though it doesn't always work out for the best.
Title: Why Grandpa carries a gun: PS. I'm grandpa
Post by: Psparr on October 20, 2016, 09:54:01 pm
Then I guess the sandy hook folks were targeted because of the guns there? Or anywhere else there's a mass shooting?
What do all those places have in common?. . . No weapons to stop the nut job.

So how do you stop them from getting access to said firearms. I know, let's make strict gun laws. Maybe like Chicago has.

Let's just follow the leftist wet dream of no guns for citizens. Sounds like a utopia. . . Oh wait. . . There's those pesky box trucks. I guess that leaves us with just sporks and cotton balls.
Title: Re: Why Grandpa carries a gun: PS. I'm grandpa
Post by: gww on October 20, 2016, 10:02:52 pm
pasparr
Quote
Then I guess the sandy hook folks were targeted because of the guns there? Or anywhere else there's a mass shooting?

Then again some people target people with the chance to kill them back because they want to die in spectacular fassion.  Some people just do bad.  Period.
Cheers
gww

Ps Some people pull the wings of flys or kick the dog for fun.  Some good poeple want to stop this stuff but don't know how.  I don't know how and so just go through life and trust luck and feel bad for the pain and help if I can but don't pretend to know how a serial killer can find enjoyment out of causing pain or any other crazy sob that finds enjoyment out of pain of others.  I reconize it is there though.
Title: Re: Why Grandpa carries a gun: PS. I'm grandpa
Post by: Acebird on October 21, 2016, 09:12:48 am
Your view is that is is self defence to keep everybody with out guns

No not quite.  I have already stated that I believe in the second amendment and would fight to the finish to retain the right to own a firearm even though the closest gun that I have access to right now is a bolt action 22 rifle.  That is almost a suicide gun for self defense.
What I do believe in is that any war related firearm, ammunition, or explosive device should be registered with the feds, require a psychiatric evaluation prior to ownership and licensing and not be allowed to sell such items to anyone that does not posses the same license.  Failure to obtain said license prior to possessing these items would be a felony.

It is a matter of common sense that anyone using a firearm should take a firearm safety course before using.  I did many, many years ago before I got my first hunting license.  All of my hunting was done with a double barrel shot gun.  I never owned a deer rifle.  Back in my day shot guns and deer rifles were slung across the back window of your pickup.  Today I don't see it anymore.  Times have changed.  So I am not in favor of nobody having guns and never will be.
Title: Re: Why Grandpa carries a gun: PS. I'm grandpa
Post by: Psparr on October 21, 2016, 09:51:15 am
Acebird, how do you keep people from attaining the weapons you don't want them to have?
Title: Re: Why Grandpa carries a gun: PS. I'm grandpa
Post by: Acebird on October 21, 2016, 10:10:08 am
How do you keep people from driving without a license?  For the most part it is the fear of getting caught.  Then there is the getting caught.  But this all depends on registration and a rapid data exchange system that separates the legal from the illegal.  Without the registration and licensing the task is impossible.
Title: Re: Why Grandpa carries a gun: PS. I'm grandpa
Post by: Psparr on October 21, 2016, 11:32:10 am
Why would a homicidal maniac bent on killing people worry about getting caught?
Title: Re: Why Grandpa carries a gun: PS. I'm grandpa
Post by: gww on October 21, 2016, 12:02:07 pm
Ace
I really don't believe in safety classes and figure it is mostly a money grab.  I do believe that if safety classes are required that they should be taught in public school.  I actully was taught in school in probly the 6th grade or so.  I took my 20 gauge simi-auto remington shotgun to class that day, on the buss and everything.  We had a feild day and went to the firing range.  The bigest thing for x-mas was getting a shot gun or a 30-30 for a present.  Me and my cousens were squirl hunting way before it would be leagal for us to own guns today.  They sold guns at all the targets and sears stores and there where no specialty stores that I knew of that sold only guns.

I don't get safety training on something that the only real thing you have to know is to point it in the air or at the ground and keep the safety on untill you are ready to fire.  It doesn't take fourty or eight or four hours to learn that.

My deer rifle is a remington 742 simi auto that though it doesn't look like a military issue works in exactly the same fassion and you can buy large capasity clips on line for it all day.

To your 22 bolt not being a good defense weapon.  All I can say is you are probly correct but I can hit what I aim at better with a little 22 than I can with any other gun but a shot gun.

I reamember in the early 70s of a family that was murdered and now days they say violent crime is actually down.  There is nothing new under the sun except maby the reporting and sociaties distance from food production and this distance giving the reporting with an agenda more credence due to most not being affected by restrictions anymore.  It was bad people that murdered in the 70's just like today.  Bad is bad.

Because it affects me and what I believe is normal, I hate to see the changes that indicate that I am living wrongly.  I do not believe this.  I know many are not affected by the changes but I will be and don't believe it is something that I have earned by bad behavior.

Just my thoughts.
gww
Title: Re: Why Grandpa carries a gun: PS. I'm grandpa
Post by: Michael Bush on October 21, 2016, 05:22:34 pm
>You have a right to drive a car ... it requires a license and registration
>You have a right to fish ... it requires a license along with limit rules and species that are in season
>You have a right to own a boat ... it requires a registration
>You have a right to own a snowmobile ... it requires a registration
>You have  a right to hunt ... it requires a license and a season for hunting

By definition if it requires a license,  it is not a right.  None of those are specified in the constitution or the bill of rights.
Title: Re: Why Grandpa carries a gun: PS. I'm grandpa
Post by: Kathyp on October 21, 2016, 05:40:01 pm
Quote
You have a right
...No, all the things you listed are privileges given by states and licenced to bring money into states.  Your real rights are protected, not given, by the constitution.  By definition, a right requires no permission.

Following your line of logic, you could be required to be licenced to speak publicly or post on the internet.  You could be required to register the type of church you choose to attend, or secure prior permission to attend group activities.  We all know of people and places that are up to no good, and for the order of society and the safety of the people, it makes sense to have a better idea of what people are up to.

Freedom is messy and sometimes dangerous business.  The other option is for the government to keep everyone safe by controlling everything.  They can do a pretty good job of it.  You didn't have a lot of riots, shootings, etc. in E. Germany, the USSR, or even Communist China.  When something like that did happen, like the mass killing by knife in China, the government is there to swoop in and make sure it doesn't happen again...although the methods they use are a bit harsh...but hey, everyone ends up safe.

   
Title: Re: Why Grandpa carries a gun: PS. I'm grandpa
Post by: Acebird on October 21, 2016, 09:15:18 pm
Why would a homicidal maniac bent on killing people worry about getting caught?

Because he/she wants to carry out their mission.  If caught in the early stages their plan is foiled.
Title: Re: Why Grandpa carries a gun: PS. I'm grandpa
Post by: Acebird on October 21, 2016, 09:18:44 pm
By definition if it requires a license,  it is not a right.  None of those are specified in the constitution or the bill of rights.

I am sorry I used the wrong word ... it is a privilege not a right.  I don't see that it changes what I said.
Title: Re: Why Grandpa carries a gun: PS. I'm grandpa
Post by: Acebird on October 21, 2016, 09:32:43 pm
They can do a pretty good job of it.  You didn't have a lot of riots, shootings, etc. in E. Germany, the USSR, or even Communist China.   

Says who?  E. Germany crumbled, the USSR crumbled, It will crumble again for the same reason, China is becoming so westernized their communist government is going to be short lived.  When it does cave the US will be second in line for the worlds super powers.  Power is money the two are not separate.
Title: Re: Why Grandpa carries a gun: PS. I'm grandpa
Post by: Kathyp on October 22, 2016, 12:40:06 am
Quote
it is a privilege not a right.  I don't see that it changes what I said.

because the two are very different things.  a privilege is given.  A right is inherent. 

Quote
Says who?  E. Germany crumbled, the USSR crumbled, It will crumble again for the same reason,

Yes, and what happened?  You immediately had free markets, people getting rich, AND a whole lot of crime that had not been seen before.  Gangs, corruption, etc.  E. Germany had it better because they were unified with a stable society and one that had not killed off its moral code as had been done in Russia. 
Title: Re: Why Grandpa carries a gun: PS. I'm grandpa
Post by: divemaster1963 on October 22, 2016, 02:20:35 pm
kathyp. you said that east germany was sable? I had many conversations with my father who went into those easten countries. there was no stabliaty, the blackmarket was rampant and murders happened in middle of streets infront of everyone including the military( who where afraid of the blackmarket gangs) to prove there power. the only reason the west someone would say they were stable was that it was never spoken about. only thing that kept people inline over there was fear! not as much from the goverment than from the gangs.

john

my father had a bullet in his upper arm for 35 years to prove that just walking the street in eastern berlin was a roll of the dice.
Title: Re: Why Grandpa carries a gun: PS. I'm grandpa
Post by: Kathyp on October 22, 2016, 04:47:59 pm
Quote
kathyp. you said that east germany was sable? I had many conversations with my father who went into those easten countries. there was no stabliaty, the blackmarket was rampant and murders happened in middle of streets infront of everyone including the military( who where afraid of the blackmarket gangs) to prove there power. the only reason the west someone would say they were stable was that it was never spoken about. only thing that kept people inline over there was fear! not as much from the goverment than from the gangs.

No, I meant they had it better after communism ended because they were rolled into a stable country.  The difference between what happened in Russia and what happened in other countries had much to do with how the culture had survived.  The Russians had been destroying culture since the early 1900s.  Other countries, Poland for example, had not been completely gutted of culture, religion, etc.  Becoming a free country again was much smoother for them. 

The east germans did have issues with reintegration.  They had become accustomed to the government doing all for them.  The west Germans had issues with the lack of work ethic, etc. in the east Germans.  Even so, they have been able to overcome much of that where in Russia there are still problems.  The industrious, criminal or otherwise, have done well, but a lot of the people had no clue how to do for themselves and still don't.  There is a reason many wish for the return of communism in Russia. 
Title: Re: Why Grandpa carries a gun: PS. I'm grandpa
Post by: Hops Brewster on October 22, 2016, 09:15:15 pm
By definition if it requires a license,  it is not a right.  None of those are specified in the constitution or the bill of rights.

I am sorry I used the wrong word ... it is a privilege not a right.  I don't see that it changes what I said.
And that is where you err, for there is a great difference between rights and priveleges, therefore none of your list are cogent arguments.

The misbelief that rights are assigned by government instead of inherently universal is the common misconception in the arguments of anti-2A crowd.  Our founders clearly stated that we are all born with certain rights, and that the purpose of the government was to guarantee those rights. Not to dole them out special classes like the army, the wealthy and the powerful. 
The 2A is there specifically to prevent subjugation of the common people by the elite.

Frankly acebird, I don't understand how you can claim that you believe in the 2A when your arguments are the stock answers constantly thrown out by those who would remove it.  You clearly do not understand what 2A is, or even the difference between rights and priveleges.
Title: Re: Why Grandpa carries a gun: PS. I'm grandpa
Post by: Dallasbeek on October 22, 2016, 11:46:18 pm
Hops, I'll take exception to your statement that the purpose of government is to guarantee certain rights, including the right to keep and bear arms.  That amendment doesn't charge the govt. to protect our right, but instead forbids the govt. from taking any action that infringes the right.  The right we have under the Second Amendment is the right to protect ourselves with arms from the government's infringement of OTHER  rights enumerated in the Constitution..  The people had very little trust in governments of any kind and the Bill of Rights was a reassurance to the people of the several states that the government would not be able to impose the thinking of Bostonians and New Yorkers or Philadelphians on the people of Virginia, Georgia,, Maine, etc., on all the people of the other States.  They were (rightfully) distrustful of any government because they had experienced being treated as second-class citizens (subjects) of England's Parliament. 

I could argue with other statements made in this string about civilians rebelling against the Army's might, but I'll only say that our Army is not as likely as it once was to fire upon Americans (Google the Army's firing on strikers at Ford's factory, for example) as it once was.  The Nuremburg trials pretty much did away with the defense of "I was only following orders". When I took the oath as a soldier it was something about following the LAWFUL order of my superiors.

Title: Re: Why Grandpa carries a gun: PS. I'm grandpa
Post by: Dallasbeek on October 23, 2016, 12:51:40 am
Well, Inwrote a very profound folloe-up to my last post, which may even have met KathyP's standards, and then submitted it to spell check and lost it -- maybe forever.  Never trust spell check or autocorrect.  DARN!
Title: Re: Why Grandpa carries a gun: PS. I'm grandpa
Post by: Kathyp on October 23, 2016, 12:55:56 am
Quote
which may even have met KathyP's standards,

I have no standards   :cool:

condolences on losing your post though.  I have done that and it sucks a lot. 
Title: Re: Why Grandpa carries a gun: PS. I'm grandpa
Post by: iddee on October 23, 2016, 07:44:47 am
KathyP says  "the Bill of Rights was a reassurance to the people of the several states that the government would not be able to impose the thinking of Bostonians and New Yorkers or Philadelphians on the people of Virginia, Georgia,, Maine, etc., on all the people of the other States.""

WOW. That sure didn't work very well in 1860, did it?
Title: Re: Why Grandpa carries a gun: PS. I'm grandpa
Post by: MikeCinWV on October 23, 2016, 10:30:40 am

"You honestly believe the second amendment gives you an edge against the federal government?  Your delusional."

The Afghans were able to hold off Russia then us with just small arms and IED's for the most part.  These "war weapons " you refer to I'm assuming you mean ar15s and the like?  What the uniformed don't realize is that if you just change the stock (the non mechanical end piece of the weapon that goes against your shoulder) an ar15 becomes nothing more than a semi automatic hunting rifle.   How ridiculous!!!!  Guns are not the problem, it's totally an issue of culture.  Chicago is a prime example.  Toughest fun laws in the country worst gun crime rate.  What Chicago does have is the majority of its young men growing up in single parent homes not knowing who their dad is.  When we are willing to address the real problem gun violence will plumet.  Where I live every house has at least 8 to 10 guns but gun violence is unheard of.  Now an hour north to Steubenville OH or hour and half to Pittsburgh and it's another story but again you're back to kids running wild in the streets while mom sucks up welfare and 40's of malt while "baby daddy" is in jail or just plain MIA.  If you want to fix the problem then address the REAL problem no matter how politically incorrect it is to do so.
Title: Re: Why Grandpa carries a gun: PS. I'm grandpa
Post by: iddee on October 23, 2016, 02:25:35 pm
AMEN MIKEC
Title: Re: Why Grandpa carries a gun: PS. I'm grandpa
Post by: Kathyp on October 23, 2016, 07:36:05 pm
Quote
KathyP says  "the Bill of Rights was a reassurance to the people of the several states that the government would not be able to impose the thinking of Bostonians and New Yorkers or Philadelphians on the people of Virginia, Georgia,, Maine, etc., on all the people of the other States.""

I don't think I said that...but there are any number of arguments about that year.  which would you like to take up?   :wink:

Title: Re: Why Grandpa carries a gun: PS. I'm grandpa
Post by: iddee on October 23, 2016, 08:35:05 pm
My apologies, Kathy. It was Dallasbeek in reply #31. I'm sorry.
Title: Re: Why Grandpa carries a gun: PS. I'm grandpa
Post by: Kathyp on October 23, 2016, 09:04:33 pm
Quote
My apologies, Kathy. It was Dallasbeek in reply #31. I'm sorry.

that's OK.  I could make some age jokes....but I'll be nice   :cheesy:
Title: Re: Why Grandpa carries a gun: PS. I'm grandpa
Post by: iddee on October 23, 2016, 09:07:06 pm
AGE JOKES??  I'm only 17.........................and dyslexic.  :tongue:   :cheesy:
Title: Re: Why Grandpa carries a gun: PS. I'm grandpa
Post by: divemaster1963 on October 23, 2016, 11:30:50 pm
kathy arn't you in our age group. old and confussed. :wink: :rolleyes:

I'm half blind and half baked.

john

Oh and for iddee. Im 35

just a youngin :wink: :tongue:
Title: Re: Why Grandpa carries a gun: PS. I'm grandpa
Post by: gww on October 24, 2016, 12:16:53 am
Iddee
Quote
AGE JOKES??  I'm only 17.........................and dyslexic.

If I remember correctly, I remember the george burns movie "17" and thought I liked it.
Good one
gww
Title: Re: Why Grandpa carries a gun: PS. I'm grandpa
Post by: Michael Bush on October 24, 2016, 10:22:52 am
>WOW. That sure didn't work very well in 1860, did it?

No.  Not for any of them.
Title: Re: Why Grandpa carries a gun: PS. I'm grandpa
Post by: Acebird on October 25, 2016, 10:34:50 am
WOW. That sure didn't work very well in 1860, did it?

The thing to remember is that Lincoln was a Republican.

The similarities between a deer rifle and an AR-15 is the trigger and a barrel.  From there it is all different.  It is like comparing a shot gun with a muzzle loader.
Title: Re: Why Grandpa carries a gun: PS. I'm grandpa
Post by: Psparr on October 25, 2016, 10:49:56 am
Yes an AR-15 looks different than a semi auto "deer rifle" but that's it.
Title: Re: Why Grandpa carries a gun: PS. I'm grandpa
Post by: Michael Bush on October 25, 2016, 11:18:23 am
>The similarities between a deer rifle and an AR-15 is the trigger and a barrel.  From there it is all different.  It is like comparing a shot gun with a muzzle loader.

Not at all.  Semi auto deer rifles with detachable magazines have been around and in common usage in the US since the turn of the 20th century.  The only difference between those and an AR15 are that an AR15 is not nearly as powerful and is made with a lot of plastic instead of wood and is lighter and more modular.  An AR15 is about the perfect amount of firepower for killing poodles... a bit light for deer, but it can work.   The 5.56?45mm NATO is about 1,700 ft pounds of energy and a Browning Automatic Rifle (I'm not referring to the M1918 but the one Browning was selling as a deer rifle)  in .30-06 is about 2,900 ft pounds of energy, making it much deadlier.  The 5.56?45mm NATO was designed to wound the enemy.  The .30-06 was designed to kill the enemy.  That's why it is much deadlier as a deer rifle or combat weapon than the 5.56mm.

http://www.browning.com/news/articles/brief-history-of-the-browning-bar.html
Title: Re: Why Grandpa carries a gun: PS. I'm grandpa
Post by: Kathyp on October 25, 2016, 11:22:59 am
Quote
The similarities between a deer rifle and an AR-15 is the trigger and a barrel.

I am always curious about this kind of statement.  can you be more specific?  MB covered caliber, etc.  I just wanted clarification of the trigger and barrel bit. 

 
Title: Re: Why Grandpa carries a gun: PS. I'm grandpa
Post by: Kathyp on October 25, 2016, 11:24:13 am
Quote
kathy arn't you in our age group. old and confussed.

Lol.  Pretty much, but Iddee is a bit ahead of me.   :wink:
Title: Re: Why Grandpa carries a gun: PS. I'm grandpa
Post by: Hops Brewster on October 28, 2016, 12:04:02 pm
WOW. That sure didn't work very well in 1860, did it?

The similarities between a deer rifle and an AR-15 is the trigger and a barrel.  From there it is all different.  It is like comparing a shot gun with a muzzle loader.
The irony about this tired, clich?d old anti-2A argument, and what makes it invalid, is that a lot of people do actually use AR15s for deer hunting, coyotes and vermin control.  The larger caliber AR10 rifles (same platform, larger action and caliber) are used for big game hunting, everything from whitetail to moose and brown bears.
Title: Re: Why Grandpa carries a gun: PS. I'm grandpa
Post by: divemaster1963 on October 28, 2016, 11:36:09 pm
my niegbor has a ar10 he uses it to hog hunt at night. has a 6000.00 night scope and silancer on it. two weeks ago he got 40 hogs in one field in about three hours. the said they keep coming back to see why the others kept falling.

john

looking thru his scope was likr looking in daylight. plus has FLIR on it.
Title: Re: Why Grandpa carries a gun: PS. I'm grandpa
Post by: Hops Brewster on October 31, 2016, 12:46:00 pm
In some European countries suppressors (silencers) are required equipment.  There is a growing movement in the US for similar laws, and to remove them from the oppressive controlled list.
Title: Re: Why Grandpa carries a gun: PS. I'm grandpa
Post by: Michael Bush on October 31, 2016, 01:19:37 pm
>In some European countries suppressors (silencers) are required equipment.

As with most gun laws, licensing suppressors was based on emotional reactions to movies, not rational thought.
Title: Re: Why Grandpa carries a gun: PS. I'm grandpa
Post by: Acebird on November 01, 2016, 09:41:50 am
my niegbor has a ar10 he uses it to hog hunt at night. has a 6000.00 night scope and silancer on it. two weeks ago he got 40 hogs in one field in about three hours. the said they keep coming back to see why the others kept falling.

john

looking thru his scope was likr looking in daylight. plus has FLIR on it.
In my state night hunting is not allowed.  I am sure NY is not the only state that restricts night hunting.
Be that as it may, I have no problem if this is a legitimate sport.  It could be handled with a special license and registration.  The instances where these guns are used for hunting are few and far between.  I am sure the people of Atlanta would not feel comfortable if they saw a person with this gun at night in there possession.
Title: Re: Why Grandpa carries a gun: PS. I'm grandpa
Post by: iddee on November 01, 2016, 09:49:03 am
I think you may want to review your laws, Ace. Night hunting is legal in N.Y. for some species.

http://www.dec.ny.gov/outdoor/29455.html
Title: Re: Why Grandpa carries a gun: PS. I'm grandpa
Post by: Psparr on November 01, 2016, 10:53:43 am
Ace, it shouldn't matter if there is night hunting or not   If I want a night vision scope on my weapon I should be allowed to have one. Period.
Title: Re: Why Grandpa carries a gun: PS. I'm grandpa
Post by: Acebird on November 01, 2016, 10:54:39 am
You use an AR-15 for them?
Title: Re: Why Grandpa carries a gun: PS. I'm grandpa
Post by: Acebird on November 01, 2016, 11:09:56 am
Ace, it shouldn't matter if there is night hunting or not   If I want a night vision scope on my weapon I should be allowed to have one. Period.

If you live on deserted island you can make all the rules you want.  When you live among other people they may have a say too.  So it is not period.
Title: Re: Why Grandpa carries a gun: PS. I'm grandpa
Post by: BeeMaster2 on November 01, 2016, 11:44:38 am
Ace,
Why do you want the government to license any part of your weapon.
The only reason to register weapons is so that the government can take them away.
If you do not believe that look at the history Germany, Russia, Japan, china, Poland. They all have registered weapons and they marched into homes, removed the weapons and then later came back and slaughtered their people by the millions.
Our founding fathers knew how bad governments can become and gave us the right to protect our selves from our government.
I spent more than half of my adult life protecting your rights.
Don't give that right away. It is the one right that protects the rest of the rights.
Jim
Title: Re: Why Grandpa carries a gun: PS. I'm grandpa
Post by: divemaster1963 on November 01, 2016, 12:41:44 pm
Night scopes are not illegal . and Hunting at night for wild hogs is legal in most States because of the danger they are.  Foxes and hogs  both are mostly night active.

John

They prefer you use night scope to see what your Aiming at. You can't hunt them legally without it in Ga.
Title: Re: Why Grandpa carries a gun: PS. I'm grandpa
Post by: Acebird on November 01, 2016, 02:26:56 pm
The only reason to register weapons is so that the government can take them away.
Jim, there are many reasons for registering weapons.  Probably first and foremost it brings in revenue that supports the hunting enthusiast.  Then there is the control of what goes where.  That might be a problem for you but it does help in protecting citizens and solving crimes.  It doesn't necessarily stop crime but it is a deterrent.  The third reason for registering a weapon is to prove it is yours.  If someone steals a gun from you, how do you prove it is yours.  If registration is in force it makes it harder to buy a stolen weapon.
Now your remark about the government is absolutely silly in today's times.  If our government wanted to kill you an 18 year old kid sitting in a office up here in Upstate NY could take you out with a drone no matter where you are in the country.  Even if you had your life savings in ammo and firearms.  Does the second Amendment give you the right to own an armed drone and fly it where ever you like?  Why not?
In this country the government is US and if the majority of US's don't want the minority of US's to have certain weapons it will happen.  We had visionaries at the beginning of our government who gave us the means to change our laws to meet future needs and wants.  Unfortunately, and it is a big unfortunate situation, our elected officials that go to Washington have no interest in what is good for the country.  They are in it strictly for themselves.  What needs to happen is cooperation so those that want to have weapons for legitimate reasons can have them.  I think that is going to require registration.  If you have better ideas that will work send your ideas to Washington.  As it stands right now it is too easy for a crack pot or a group of crazies to get weapons and wipe out innocent people.
Registration doesn't in any way affect the 2nd Amendment unless you are crazy.  Does a criminal have a right to have a firearm?
Title: Re: Why Grandpa carries a gun: PS. I'm grandpa
Post by: Psparr on November 01, 2016, 02:57:15 pm
The only reason to register weapons is so that the government can take them away.
Registration doesn't in any way affect the 2nd Amendment unless you are crazy.  Does a criminal have a right to have a firearm?

Unless you don't know history.
Unless you think history doesn't repeat itself.
Do you really think the USA will continue as a constitutional republic for eternity?
Half of the country can't even name one of the vice presidential candidates.
They are sheep, and will conform to whatever the powers that be want to make of this great nation.
Title: Re: Why Grandpa carries a gun: PS. I'm grandpa
Post by: Kathyp on November 01, 2016, 04:22:30 pm
Quote
In this country the government is US and if the majority of US's don't want the minority of US's to have certain weapons it will happen.

This is a leftist error and explains much about why they believe what they believe.  The government is not us.  The government is our employee.  If people would remember that and treat the government in that way, we would have the control we were meant to have. 

The second amendment argument is a piece of a larger and more important argument.  You position depends on believing that giving government more control is good for society. This idea is not lost on leftist politicians.  If they can win the 2nd amendment argument, they can win the free speech argument and define "hate speech", regulate internet speech, and control broadcast speech....all things they are already trying to do.  They can interfere with religious exercise, and the press....all things they are already trying to do or have expressed an interest in doing. They can win the 10th amendment argument, which they are already doing and must do to increase the power of the federal government.    They are already ignoring the 4th and parts of the 5th. They completely ignore the 9th.

You don't think that can happen.  I am telling you it is happening.  What makes you think we are so special that we can't end up on the long list of countries that willingly gave up freedom to an oppressive government?   
Title: Re: Why Grandpa carries a gun: PS. I'm grandpa
Post by: Michael Bush on November 01, 2016, 06:14:06 pm
>Registration doesn't in any way affect the 2nd Amendment unless you are crazy.  Does a criminal have a right to have a firearm?

You can't license a right.  And if you register people for a right you set them up for confiscation.  It has always been the sequence of events whenever registration of firearms has taken place.  Over and over in history that is the first step.  What is the point of registration if you aren't going to confiscate them?  The list of people who are ineligible to have a gun is much shorter than the list of people who are eligible.  You should keep the short list, not the long list.  You should track the ones who shouldn't have guns, not the people who have them or can have them.

Watching the current election and the things going on, I think we are already in a 3rd world country as far as corruption and out of control government.
Title: Re: Why Grandpa carries a gun: PS. I'm grandpa
Post by: Hops Brewster on November 01, 2016, 06:21:32 pm
my niegbor has a ar10 he uses it to hog hunt at night. has a 6000.00 night scope and silancer on it. two weeks ago he got 40 hogs in one field in about three hours. the said they keep coming back to see why the others kept falling.

john

looking thru his scope was likr looking in daylight. plus has FLIR on it.
It could be handled with a special license and registration.  The instances where these guns are used for hunting are few and far between.  .

No sir, not so few and not so far between.  Modern Rifles (as the AR platform is called outside the anti-2A camp) are being used quite commonly.  I saw 2 of them in Utah on one morning.  2 in Idaho another morning.  There is absolutely no reason why one could not or should not use a modern rifle.  Suppressors and night sights?  Just another couple tools in the hunter's kit.  Why would any thoughtful person want special licenses and registrations for tools that A) reduce noise pollution, B) Save the shooter's hearing from destructive noise, and C) Aid in the control of destructive, invasive species when they are most activel?

Title: Re: Why Grandpa carries a gun: PS. I'm grandpa
Post by: Hops Brewster on November 01, 2016, 06:28:00 pm
The only reason to register weapons is so that the government can take them away.
Jim, there are many reasons for registering weapons.  Probably first and foremost it brings in revenue that supports the hunting enthusiast.  Then there is the control of what goes where.  That might be a problem for you but it does help in protecting citizens and solving crimes.  It doesn't necessarily stop crime but it is a deterrent.  The third reason for registering a weapon is to prove it is yours.  If someone steals a gun from you, how do you prove it is yours.  If registration is in force it makes it harder to buy a stolen weapon.
Now your remark about the government is absolutely silly in today's times.  If our government wanted to kill you an 18 year old kid sitting in a office up here in Upstate NY could take you out with a drone no matter where you are in the country.  Even if you had your life savings in ammo and firearms.  Does the second Amendment give you the right to own an armed drone and fly it where ever you like?  Why not?
In this country the government is US and if the majority of US's don't want the minority of US's to have certain weapons it will happen.  We had visionaries at the beginning of our government who gave us the means to change our laws to meet future needs and wants.  Unfortunately, and it is a big unfortunate situation, our elected officials that go to Washington have no interest in what is good for the country.  They are in it strictly for themselves.  What needs to happen is cooperation so those that want to have weapons for legitimate reasons can have them.  I think that is going to require registration.  If you have better ideas that will work send your ideas to Washington.  As it stands right now it is too easy for a crack pot or a group of crazies to get weapons and wipe out innocent people.
Registration doesn't in any way affect the 2nd Amendment unless you are crazy.  Does a criminal have a right to have a firearm?

The funds from registering firearms does not do anything to support hunters or the game animals.  Hunting licenses and special excise taxes on hunting gear do that.   Registration fees ONLY go to support the registration schemes.  Registration does not deter a criminal, it only deters the honest citizen.

You are right about one thing though, our elected officials that go to Washington have no interest in what is good for the country.  They are in it strictly for themselves.

And I do have a legitimate reason to own any firearm I choose to own.  I am a free born human being, born with the right to defend myself, my family, and my property.  And even if the anti-2A fools ever succeed in legislating away the guns, they will never take awau that inalienable right, and I will use whatever weapon that comes to hand if forced to exercise that right.
Title: Re: Why Grandpa carries a gun: PS. I'm grandpa
Post by: Ben Framed on June 24, 2023, 08:42:45 am
Why Grandpa carries a gun:

My old Grandpa said to me, 'Son, there comes a time in every man's life when he stops bustin' knuckles and starts bustin' caps and usually it's when he becomes too old to take a whoopin'.'
 
I don't carry a gun to kill people; I carry a gun to keep from being killed.
 
I don't carry a gun because I'm evil; I carry a gun because I have lived long enough to see the evil in the World.
 
I don't carry a gun because I hate the government; I carry a gun because I understand the limitations of government.
 
I don't carry a gun because I'm angry; I carry a gun so that I don't have to spend the rest of my life hating myself for failing to be prepared.
 
I don't carry a gun because I want to shoot someone; I carry a gun because I want to die at a ripe old age in my bed and not on a sidewalk somewhere tomorrow afternoon.
 
I don't carry a gun to make me feel like a man; I carry a gun because men know how to take care of themselves and the ones they love.
 
I don't carry a gun because I feel inadequate; I carry a gun because unarmed and facing three armed thugs, I am inadequate.
 
I don't carry a gun because I love it; I carry a gun because I love life and the people who make it meaningful to me.
 
Police protection is an oxymoron: Free citizens must protect themselves because police cannot protect you from crime; they investigate the crime after it happens and then call someone in to clean up the mess.
 
Personally, I carry a gun because I'm too young to die and too old to take a whoopin'!
 
A LITTLE GUN HISTORY
PLEASE DON'T THINK FOR A MOMENT, THAT THIS COULDN'T HAPPEN IN OUR COUNTRY ALSO.
 
In 1929, the Soviet Union established gun control: From 1929 to 1953, about 20 million dissidents, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.
In 1911, Turkey established gun control: From 1915 to 1917, 1.5 million Armenians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.
Germany established gun control in 1938: From 1939 to 1945, a total of 13 million Jews and others who were  unable to defend themselves were rounded up and exterminated.
China established gun control in 1935: From 1948 to 1952, 20 million political dissidents, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.
Guatemala established gun control in 1964: From 1964 to 1981, 100,000 Mayan Indians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.
-----------------------
Uganda established gun control in 1970: From 1971 to 1979, 300,000 Christians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.
-----------------------
Cambodia established gun control in 1956: From 1975 to 1977, one million educated people, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.
 
56 million defenseless people were rounded up and exterminated in the 20th Century because of gun control.
 
You won't see this data on the US evening news, or hear politicians disseminating this information.
 
Guns in the hands of honest citizens save lives and property and, yes, gun-control laws adversely affect only the law-abiding citizens.
 
With guns, we are 'citizens'; without them, we are 'subjects'.
 
During WW II, the Japanese decided not to invade America because they knew most Americans were ARMED!
 
Gun owners in the USA are the largest armed forces in the World!
 
If you value your freedom, please spread this anti-gun control message to all of your friends.
 
The purpose of fighting is to win. There is no possible victory in defense.
 
The sword is more important than the shield and skill is more important than either.
 
SWITZERLAND ISSUES A GUN TO EVERY HOUSEHOLD!  SWITZERLAND 'S GOVERNMENT ISSUES AND TRAINS EVERY ADULT IN THE USE OF A RIFLE. SWITZERLAND HAS THE LOWEST GUN RELATED CRIME RATE OF ANY CIVILIZED COUNTRY IN THE WORLD.
 
IT'S A NO BRAINER! DON'T LET OUR GOVERNMENT WASTE MILLIONS OF OUR TAX DOLLARS IN AN EFFORT TO MAKE ALL LAW-ABIDING CITIZENS AN EASY TARGET.
 
I'm a firm believer in the 2nd Amendment! If you are too, please forward this. If you're not a believer, please reconsider the true facts. This is history; not what's being shown on TV, sanctioned by our illustrious delusional leaders in Washington.

Thanks iddee...