Protective suits

[Dora]

Down here in the Texas Hill Country, our bee club members tell us that a full bee suit is not optional. So ... I've been looking at suits in the $160- $240 range in the USA market.
However, I ran into this website: https://fivestarbeekeeping.com/ and wonder if anyone has had dealings with them. It's a Pakistani site, and their prices are less than half of US prices. What I deem to be their best suit doesn't have the bells and whistles of the one I found at Foxhound: https://www.foxhoundbeecompany.com/products/sting-stopper-professional-ventilated-beekeeping-suit-beekeper-white. But I can get three suits for that price and suit up other members of the family.
There's a good review of their site on TrustPilot: Fivestarbeekeeping is rated "Average" with 3.7 / 5 on Trustpilot
Like I said ... I am wondering if anyone has had dealings with these folks. (Their suits look considerably better than what Temu offers, with a "better" price too. 😉)

[NigelP]

I've bought ventilated suits from several sources.....all were manufactured in Pakistan. All have been good quality. Give them a go.
The triple mesh ventilated suits are virtually sting proof and you can comfortably bee keep in shorts and little else in hot weather. A godsend over the all-in one cloth suits.

[Michael Bush]

The Pakistani suits will work but won't last as well as the US ones.  Most all of mine are Ultrabreeze.  Most are jackets but I also have some suits.

[max2]

Down here in the Texas Hill Country, our bee club members tell us that a full bee suit is not optional. So ... I've been looking at suits in the $160- $240 range in the USA market.
However, I ran into this website: https://fivestarbeekeeping.com/ and wonder if anyone has had dealings with them. It's a Pakistani site, and their prices are less than half of US prices. What I deem to be their best suit doesn't have the bells and whistles of the one I found at Foxhound: https://www.foxhoundbeecompany.com/products/sting-stopper-professional-ventilated-beekeeping-suit-beekeper-white. But I can get three suits for that price and suit up other members of the family.
There's a good review of their site on TrustPilot: Fivestarbeekeeping is rated "Average" with 3.7 / 5 on Trustpilot
Like I said ... I am wondering if anyone has had dealings with these folks. (Their suits look considerably better than what Temu offers, with a "better" price too. 😉)

I have been buying beesuits from pakistan in modest quantiries for a long time.
The family I have been dealing with is a small outfit and have been willing to make some chages to suit our needs.
They use the same tripple layer material and the same zips as the suits made here ( and probably in the US)
I never had a problem with order.
When i was in pakistan I would have liked to visit the small factory but it was too difficult to travel to a rural destination.

[NigelP]

The Pakistani suits will work but won't last as well as the US ones.  Most all of mine are Ultrabreeze.  Most are jackets but I also have some suits.

At $55 dollars vs $259 for an Ultrabreeze I know where I would be shopping, unless I was a dedicated patriot.

[Michael Bush]

>At $55 dollars vs $259 for an Ultrabreeze I know where I would be shopping, unless I was a dedicated patriot.

Because you haven't compared them side by side for quality.

[Salvo]

My wife bought me an Ultra Breeze full suit a few years ago when I took 42 stings to the throat area.

I'm her Valentine.

Sal

[Michael Bush]

If you forget to zip it all the way up and stick the velcro down, you can still get stings to the throat...

[The15thMember]

My biggest concern about buying from overseas would be, what is there return/exchange policy like?  I bought my full vented suit from a company that didn't offer exchanges, and honestly, I wish I had ordered a size down (and I only didn't because they said to order a size up from your normal size! )  And because my suit doesn't fit me well, I sometimes get stung through it.   

[NigelP]

>At $55 dollars vs $259 for an Ultrabreeze I know where I would be shopping, unless I was a dedicated patriot.

Because you haven't compared them side by side for quality.

Not going to fork out $259 + postage to compare. Have their suit, so far 3 years use(3 afternoons minimum  per week during season) and no issues so far. Intent to buy a second so when it does give up the ghost I have a new one....expect a least another season from old one. Total cost....just over a ?100. Which should last an estimated 8 years of fairly high usage. No brainer.

[Dora]

Thanks much for the observations re Pakistani suits in general! Your observations are reassuring.

@Michael Bush: I'm a serious fan of yours, but I just looked at what I thought to be the Ultrabreeze website (from a Google search), and I invite you to do the same: https://www.beekeeper-suit.com/ultra-breeze-bee-suit/. Doesn't the man modeling the suit have a bit of a Pakistani look?? 😉 The Wyoming price is nearly twice that of what appears to be the same suit from Pakistan. Premium American price.

But then, that's probably not the site you mean. I found this: https://ultrabreezesuits.com/products/ultra-breeze-jumpsuit-includes-hood
I note that the suit appears to be 100% "breezy," with no solid pockets or reinforced knee pads, etc. It also lacks the elastic at sleeves and pants bottoms which the Pakistani site shows. Their photo is so poor that I can't tell whether the pockets are "breezy" or solid cloth.

Doe the Ultrabreeze have a two-way zipper in the front? (I like to see that for my menfolk.) Would you say that this suit wears well without the solid knee pads and other reinforcements? (I'm guessing that the actual fabric is likely made in Pakistan, and it is possible that the suit is actually sewn in the US. I love the idea of totally breezy!!)

Now take a look at the FivestarBeekeeping site: https://fivestarbeekeeping.com/product/ultra-breeze-bee-suit-3-layer-bee-suit/ Does the model look a bit familiar? With the poor photo, it's hard to tell whether the suit is identical, except for the elastic loops at end of sleeves and pant legs.

On Amazon, it appeared to me that the "totally breezy" suits, without knee pads and reinforcement, etc. were the less expensive suits. I may have to rethink this subject. Looking forward to hearing from you folks re the Ultra-breeze or "totally breezy" suits.  (That's not the one I chose at FiveStar ..) Your feedback has already been helpful. Thank you so much!!

[Dora]

I see this on https://ultrabreezesuits.com/products/ultra-breeze-jumpsuit-includes-hood:

Our suits and jackets are made
in the USA, even our fabrics and brass zippers.

That supports Michael's comment re USA-made.
So the others are knock-offs.

[Terri Yaki]

Those suits look like nets, you don't get stung through them?

[The15thMember]

There is a close up picture of the fabric in this link.  https://beeprogear.com/products/3-layer-ultra-ventilated-round-suit

The suits are triple layered, so it's two layers of tight fabric mesh with a layer of looser but thicker rubbery mesh in between.  I've only ever gotten stung through a suit like this in spots where the mesh is right up against my skin, like on my shoulders or on my knee if I'm crouching down (because my knee pad doesn't hit me at the right spot). 

[NigelP]

The very first open mesh suit I bought was an OzArmour one, shipped all he way from Australia. When I examine the inside leg I found a small tag saying "made in Pakistan".

[Ben Framed]

I did not purchase the complete suit. I ordered the cheapest ventilated jacket with hood from Man Lake. It keeps bees out. I do use an elastic belt wrapped around the bottom at the waist area for added insurance. Works good for me.

[Bill Murray]

My wife bought me a ventilated jacket I think 2 yrs ago, because I asked her to put new elastic in the old one. Other than the veil mesh, I dont know how I did without it, and I cant remember the last time I zipped the hood on my jacket.

[Michael Bush]

>@Michael Bush: I'm a serious fan of yours, but I just looked at what I thought to be the Ultrabreeze website (from a Google search), and I invite you to do the same: https://www.beekeeper-suit.com/ultra-breeze-bee-suit/. Doesn't the man modeling the suit have a bit of a Pakistani look?? 😉 The Wyoming price is nearly twice that of what appears to be the same suit from Pakistan. Premium American price.

Wrong web site.

<But then, that's probably not the site you mean. I found this: https://ultrabreezesuits.com/products/ultra-breeze-jumpsuit-includes-hood

That would be the right one.

>I note that the suit appears to be 100% "breezy," with no solid pockets or reinforced knee pads, etc. It also lacks the elastic at sleeves and pants bottoms which the Pakistani site shows. Their photo is so poor that I can't tell whether the pockets are "breezy" or solid cloth.

Yes, the Ultra Breeze is "breezier" than any others.  Originally the design of the three layer suit was patented by an older couple in Louisinanna.  The suit had a lot of solid reinforcments and pockets.  It was marketed under the name "Golden Bee Products".  I bought one of those first and loved it but as they got older supply problems ensued and a friend of mine, Bill, from Oklahoma decided to make them.  He was also determined to improve them.  And to use only USA materials etc. and to make them in the USA.  Also, the Golden Bee Products was only a full suit.  Bill made a jacket as well as a suit.  I bought a suit from him first and then a jacket.  I have used both, but more than 90% of the time I use the jacket.  It's easier to get on and off by a long shot, but on a really hot day sometimes I wear the full suit with only shorts under it.

>Doe the Ultrabreeze have a two-way zipper in the front? (I like to see that for my menfolk.)

Yes.

> Would you say that this suit wears well without the solid knee pads and other reinforcements?

Yes.

> (I'm guessing that the actual fabric is likely made in Pakistan, and it is possible that the suit is actually sewn in the US. I love the idea of totally breezy!!)

I can't say for sure, but if it's available made in the USA they probably did that.

>Now take a look at the FivestarBeekeeping site: https://fivestarbeekeeping.com/product/ultra-breeze-bee-suit-3-layer-bee-suit/ Does the model look a bit familiar? With the poor photo, it's hard to tell whether the suit is identical, except for the elastic loops at end of sleeves and pant legs.

I notice they ignore all the trademark laws.  Often these copycats literally steal the actual photos from the original product site.

>On Amazon, it appeared to me that the "totally breezy" suits, without knee pads and reinforcement, etc. were the less expensive suits. I may have to rethink this subject. Looking forward to hearing from you folks re the Ultra-breeze or "totally breezy" suits.  (That's not the one I chose at FiveStar ..) Your feedback has already been helpful. Thank you so much!!

Any fully ventilated suit is an improvement over one without the ventilation.  I've had very good luck with the Ultra Breeze and it's what I buy from time to time as gifts or to restock my supply for beecamp.

Also Ultra Breeze sells replacement hoods and even replacement zippers.  The hoods usually give out before the jacket and I have bought a few of them.  They zip right on.

[max2]

" It's easier to get on and off by a long shot, but on a really hot day sometimes I wear the full suit with only shorts under it."

Summer or winter I always only wear shorts under a full suit.

I find the full suit easy to put on as I can tuck the legs into boots.

Having a good relationship with the manufacturer allowed me to suggest some changes to suit our needs.

I can't remember being stung this current season while wearing the suit at all. Not saying i have not been stung but the occasions have been on the hands  or on the nose and lips when I did not bother putting a suit on for some quick job.

Having offeded bee keeping workshops for many years I have found that a suit ( or jacket) has lifted the game.
People feel protected and this is a confidence lifter.
The " Breeze" part of these suits does work best when there is a " breeze" to cool you off.

I think it is positive to buy as local as possible but the price difference can be too much for some.
I sell the suits for $ 90 US and give a pair of leather gloves for free.
The jackets are $ 60 with a pair of gloves.
Not a huge profit but plenty of happy beekeepers

[Michael Bush]

>The " Breeze" part of these suits does work best when there is a " breeze" to cool you off.

Very true.  Luckily (or unluckily) we almost always have a breeze in Nebraska.  Usually more breeze than we really want.  I thought the wind here was relentless until I moved to Laramie, WY.  Even more relentless and 10mph faster.  But it's true, if you live somewhere where it is really hot and dead calm, they don't help nearly as much.

[BeeMaster2]

>The " Breeze" part of these suits does work best when there is a " breeze" to cool you off.

Very true.  Luckily (or unluckily) we almost always have a breeze in Nebraska.  Usually more breeze than we really want.  I thought the wind here was relentless until I moved to Laramie, WY.  Even more relentless and 10mph faster.  But it's true, if you live somewhere where it is really hot and dead calm, they don't help nearly as much.

You mean like Florida. 😊
That is why we have Beefest in early spring.
Working in bee hives during the middle of summer is not fun, even with a breeze type jacket on. We have high humidity and very little wind during the summer. Bees really don?t like it when you are dripping sweat in the top of the hive or while doing a cutout, trying to prep comb to put it in a frame.
Jim Altmiller

[Terri Yaki]

We don't get quite the heat and humidity here in PA that you do in FL and I don't know about NE but we seem to have relentless winds in the winter and none to be found in the summer heat. Would it behoove me to get a breezy suit? I have a veil but I do not have any kind of a suit yet.

[Michael Bush]

Even without a breeze it's a bit cooler with the ventilated suit.  Every time you move it makes a little breeze, but not a lot.

[The15thMember]

I agree.  Especially if you are going to get a full suit, I think a vented suit is the way to go.  Why not be cooler?   

[Terri Yaki]

Thanks and I'm thinking that where I'm considering placing my hives, I'll be able to create something of a breeze with my big shop fan.

[Dora]

H'mm ... creating a breeze with a fan sounds like a good reason to situate hives close to a building!
(Still working on situating hives.)

[Michael Bush]

https://bushfarms.com/beesfaqs.htm#locating

"Where should I put my hive?" The problem is there isn't a simple answer. But in a list of decreasing importance I would pick these criteria with a willingness to sacrifice the less important ones altogether if they don't work out:

Safety. It's essential to have the hive where they are not a threat to animals who are chained or penned up and can't flee if they are attacked, or where they are likely to be a threat to passerbys who don't know there are hives there. If the hive is going to be close to a path that people walk you need to have a fence or something to get the bees up over the people's heads. Also face the hive away from the path or any area that people will be using a lot. For the safety of the bees they should be where cattle won't rub on them and knock them over, horses won't knock them over and bears can't get to them.

Convenient access. It's essential to have the hive where the beekeeper can drive right up to it. Carrying full supers that could weigh from 90 pounds (41kg) (deep) down to 48 pounds (22kg) (eight frame medium) any distance is too much work. The same for bringing beekeeping equipment and feed to the hives. You may have to feed as much as 50 pounds (23kg) or more of syrup to each hive and carrying it any distance is not practical. Also you will learn a lot more about bees with a hive in your backyard than a hive 20 miles (32km) away at a friend's house. Also a yard a mile or two from home will get much better care than one 60 miles (100km) from home.

Good forage. If you have a lot of options, then go for a place with lots of forage. Sweet clover, alfalfa being grown for seed, tulip poplars etc. can make the difference between bumper crops of 200 pounds (91kg) or more of honey per hive and barely scraping a living. But keep in mind the bees will not only be foraging the space you own, they will be foraging the 8,000 acres (32 square km) around the hives.

Not in your way. I think it's important the hive does not interfere with anyone's life much. In other words, don't put it right next to a well used path where, in a dearth and in a bad mood, the bees may harass or sting someone or anywhere else where you are likely to wish they weren't there.

Full sun. I find hives in full sun have fewer problems with diseases and pests and make more honey. All things being equal, I'd go for full sun. The only advantage to putting them in the shade is that you get to work them in the shade.

Out of the wind. It's nice to have them where the cold winter wind doesn't blow on them so hard and the wind is less likely to blow them over or blow off the lids. This isn't my number one requirement, but if a place is available that has a windbreak it's nice. This usually precludes putting them at the very top of a hill.

Not in a low-lying area. I don't care if they are somewhere in the middle, but I'd rather not have them where the dew and the fog and the cold settle and I really don't want them where I have to move them if there's a threat of a flood.

If you live in a very hot climate, mid afternoon shade might be a nice to have, but I wouldn't lose sleep over it.

In the end, bees are very adaptable. They really don't care, so make sure it's convenient for you, and if it's not too hard to provide, try to meet some of the other criteria. It's doubtful you'll have a place that meets all of the criteria listed above.

[Terri Yaki]

Should we have a different thread for hive location or should we carry on here? I don't mind either way but it is a topic of interest for me. I have a large corner in the back of my property where a dairy barn used to stand and I have a lot of concrete. I have a large garage (60x40) with two sides open for parking hives, one on concrete one is maintained grass. On the WSW edge of the property and concrete, is a non-mature tree line. I also have a swimming pool about 50 yds east of that tree line. My best for access but not in the way is at that tree line in the back corner with open directions about NE to NW. Hives would get morning sun and late afternoon and evening shade. I could also place them on the south facing side of the garage where they would get morning sun but shade would come in later in the afternoon to evening. Or the east facing side in the grass, which gets shaded both morning and afternoon so I figure that side is out. Besides, I'd have to mow around them. Here are two pictures of the property. Orientation is north up.

[BeeMaster2]

Putting them on concrete would bee good, it gives you a level base and you can park next to the hives without having to worry about getting stuck.
When I lived in Jacksonville, I had my hives up against my workshop with enough space so that I could walk behind them and work the hives. I could also see them from my bathroom window if I wanted to check on them. Many a hot night I would turn on a flashlight to see if they were bearding. You also don?t want them where there is a night light that is on all night in direct line of sight to the hive. You will have a lot of dead bees below it.
Jim Altmiller

[Bill Murray]

Just my personal opinion. Put them anywhere except where you have low lying water and you have good access to them. looks like you have enough room not to worry about anything else. Until you do. The bees are aggressive. RE-QUEEN. Youll be fine.

[Terri Yaki]

They told us not to face them towards a pool or an obstruction like the tree line in our class. Do they need much time to gain altitude to get over trees and bushes? I figure I'll give them some kind of containers of water to drink out near their hives and hopefully they won't bother me at the pool. I was thinking that back corner, back to the tree line and facing the pool. Out of any activity there, morning sun, evening shade. I have a field across the street that they plant corn or soy beans in. I expect that soy beans have a lot of flowers but I don't see how corn pollen would bee of any interest to them.

[Michael Bush]

>They told us not to face them towards a pool or an obstruction like the tree line in our class.

I have often faced them to the side of a house about 2 feet away from the wall.  It forces them up right off so they don't run into people in the yard.  All of this is irrelevant other than keeping people from getting in the flight path.

> Do they need much time to gain altitude to get over trees and bushes?

No.  They can quickly fly straight up.

> I figure I'll give them some kind of containers of water to drink out near their hives and hopefully they won't bother me at the pool.

The pool will probably be an issue regardless of what you do but you can try to make a more attractive water source:
https://bushfarms.com/beeswater.htm

Bees need water. One of the issues is providing it. Another is to have it more attractive than the neighbor?s hot tub. To accomplish this you need to understand that bees are attracted to water because of several things:

o  Smell. They can recruit bees to a source that has odor. Chlorine has odor. So does sewage.
o  Warmth. Warm water can be taken on even moderately chilly days. Cold water cannot because when the bees get chilled they can?t fly home.
o  Reliability. Bees prefer a reliable source.
o  Accessibility. Bees need to be able to get to the water without falling in. A horse tank or bucket with no floats does not work well. A creek bank provides such access as they can land on the bank and walk up to the water. A barrel or bucket does not unless you provide ladders or floats or both. I use a bucket of water full of old sticks. The bees can land on the stick and climb down to the water.


I was thinking that back corner, back to the tree line and facing the pool. Out of any activity there, morning sun, evening shade. I have a field across the street that they plant corn or soy beans in. I expect that soy beans have a lot of flowers but I don't see how corn pollen would bee of any interest to them.

[BeeMaster2]

When we were in Jacksonville, my bees were about 50 feet from our pool. Besides using it for a water source, even though they had a bird bath closer to the hives, they used the pool as a dumping site for their sick and to make sure that the drones can?t come back when they evicted them.
My wife and granddaughters used cups to pick the bees out of the pool. Almost every one walked back to the pool and jumped back in, no matter which side of the pool that they put them out from.
One day I was watching the bees from between the hives. There was a lot of activity on the landing board on one hive. A bee was dragging a drone out of the hive with all its might. When it got to the edge, they both fell off and the bees carried the drone about 30 feet, made a 90 degree left turn, flew over the pool and dropped it in the far end of the pool. It was an amazing thing to see and hear. Due to the drones weight her wings made a lot os noise the whole way. That was when I learned that the bees were not falling in the water but they were put there on purpose to make sure that they didn?t return.
Jim Altmiller

[Terri Yaki]

Now that is interesting. I can go with a bucket of pool water and see how that goes. I guess that the water needs to be changed periodically to prevent a mosquito farm.

[Michael Bush]

> I guess that the water needs to be changed periodically to prevent a mosquito farm.

Correct.  Or put some fish in it...