Plastic Frames reuse

[Michael Bush]

>How did you go about cleaning them down to the original form, before dipping them?

A stiff scrub brush.

[2Sox]

THP,
Here is what I made to rewax several hundred plastic foundations. It is just 2-4x4x24 inch pieces of steel welded together with the middle pieces cut out before welding. Then I welded a piece of flat plate on the bottom. Put some water in the bottom and add wax. Leave enough room above the wax to allow you to shake out half of a frame.  I heat it with a propane deep fryer grill. It uses very little wax this way. I added the metal ring to put an aluminum pan, with the center cut to fit the top so that it catches the wax and keeps it away from the flame.





 I use a pressure washer, with the frames in a plastic basket, to keep the foundation from blowing away and then I dip half of the foundation in the wax. I stack them up and then do the other half. Before I pull the frames out, I bang them on the sides, all four sides, to knock the excess wax off. It worked real well and 10 times faster than trying to paint them.
Jim

Ingenious!  But kind of hard to picture this from the description.  I'd love to see a YouTube of the process!

[beepro]

In 6 year of beekeeping I have never throw out or on purpose destroy a black drawn comb frame.  I use the
black comb for the outer frames in the brood nest to collect pollen/nectar.   This will keep the hive very well fed.
Because there is a cocoon in each of the empty cells the pollen/nectar is safe.   So through out the 4 seasons these pollen
filled black comb can be use to feed the bees for nucs expansion or otherwise.   Don't have to destroy the black comb at all.

[Ben Framed]

What about some type of steam set up?  Would this possibly work or will the steam also warp the frames?

[TheHoneyPump]

What about some type of steam set up?  Would this possibly work or will the steam also warp the frames?

Wax melts at 62-67 degC. Steam is 105+ degC. The plastic frame material begins to deform, warp, at just under 60 degC. Any form of heat is not going to work.
In absence of anything already done or available in the scale of what we need ..... I have something figured out. Just getting the economics sorted.  Then will get on with the build.

Thanks all

[Ben Framed]

What about some type of steam set up?  Would this possibly work or will the steam also warp the frames?

Wax melts at 62-67 degC. Steam is 105+ degC. The plastic frame material begins to deform, warp, at just under 60 degC. Any form of heat is not going to work.
In absence of anything already done or available in the scale of what we need ..... I have something figured out. Just getting the economics sorted.  Then will get on with the build.

Thanks all

OK, my curiosity is up. Looking forward to the (cure).

[BeeMaster2]

The plastic that they use is very strong. I doubt the steam would bother it. If this material is left in the sun for a long time it will become brittle. Other than that it is almost un breakable.

Jim
I started to reply to this thread and had to stop. I then finished it and then read the above posts. If I had a steam cleaner I would definitely test it on this plastic. I strongly suspect it will hold up.

[beepro]

I don't know about the yellow plastic.  The black small cell plastic under our hot summer sun for 2 weeks begin to
wrap.  Then the comb begin to peel off.   Once bent it will crack like a piece of dry cracker when pressure was applied.  Have never tested on the
yellow rite-cell plastic yet.   Yep, my little bee experiment also included testing the foundation wax and plastic as well as the composite chips particle
board hive boxes and hive top covers.  There is so much to learn once you're experimenting!

[BeeMaster2]

Beepro,
It was just last week when I found a yellow plastic foundation, that was part of an Apiary that I just bought, that was as brittle as can bee. Up until that point I had always found it to be very durable. Quite often when I am cleaning them I smack the heck out of them over and over again, really hard, on a hard surface or on each other and I have never broke one.
Jim

[beepro]

In the right storage environment you can keep many of these wax worms and adult moths.  One little experiment I
came up with actually clean up the black drawn wax frames.  On plastic they will completely clean up over
time.  But on natural wax there won't be anything left over after cleaning as they will just dig right through to
cast their silks all over.


This is only the brown drawn comb.  Imagine what can be clean up on the out dated black
drawn comb. 

https://tinyurl.com/y9snw7bd

https://tinyurl.com/yaeyagkk

[BeeMaster2]

Beepro,
One problem with letting wax moths clean plastic foundation is that they actually eat the plastic. Usually just a little bit but if you leave a lot of them on the frames it will be significant.
Jim

[beepro]

The plastic has no nutritional value so they will only eat the comb so far.  I don't see a
significant damage on the plastic.   It doesn't matter because I
will brush on some melted wax on the clean plastic cells so that the bees will be more likely to
redraw them out.    If I'm lazy to clean out the black comb then just let nature does it. 

[cao]

The plastic has no nutritional value so they will only eat the comb so far.  I don't see a
significant damage on the plastic.   It doesn't matter because I
will brush on some melted wax on the clean plastic cells so that the bees will be more likely to
redraw them out.    If I'm lazy to clean out the black comb then just let nature does it. 

That may work with plastic frames but with plastic foundation with wood frames the moths would destroy the frames.

[beepro]

At some point you have to stop the moth larvae from over infestation.  I give it one month.  This way the
wooden frames are still in good condition without any damage.  From the pics you will notice that these comb frames are wrap in
plastic food film.  This will confine the larvae only to the inside drawn comb of the frame.  Also notice that the
outside of the drawn comb cells are still intact.    If the wood is your main concern then cut out the wax about a half inch wide
gap all the way around the frame.  Without any wax to eat the larvae will not damage the wood.   Yes, you still need to monitor the progress on this method.

[robirot]

Why don't you just use a solar or steam melter and melt the wax down. That way you can even keep the wax and don't damage the frames. For wax frames, either use a pressure cleaner setup or freeze the frames and scrape them off.

Everything into a pot, melt it and push the debris down to the bottom or scoop it out.

Waxmoth just make a lot more work an damage.

[beepro]

We're talking about the plastic drawn frames here not the natural wax drawn comb that the
bees make.  As part of this little wax moth experiment I've also use the natural wax comb for
comparison.  This way I will know how damaging are those wax moth larvae can be.    I'm not sure
heating the plastic drawn comb will make them wrap or not.   Whatever is convenient I will let
nature do its work for me -- wax moths.

[BeeMaster2]

THP,
I stand corrected. I built a steam wax melter per the video BenFramed proved. I put 2 plastic foundations, one yellow and one white. The Yellow one warped real bad, the white one warped but not as much.
I am the process of rebuilding it. I originally had the steam pipe above the metal tray. I plan on moving it to below the metal pan. The wax is solidifying before it drips out of the front. I will have to put slots in the sides of the pan.
Jim

[Ben Framed]

THP,
I stand corrected. I built a steam wax melter per the video BenFramed proved. I put 2 plastic foundations, one yellow and one white. The Yellow one warped real bad, the white one warped but not as much.
I am the process of rebuilding it. I originally had the steam pipe above the metal tray. I plan on moving it to below the metal pan. The wax is solidifying before it drips out of the front. I will have to put slots in the sides of the pan.
Jim

Jim I also sent the same video to Mr Honey Pump when I sent it to you. The homemade wax melter in the video looks promising for the hobbyist as well a (small) outfit. In the begining I was thinking it might be suitable for a large outfit until Mr Claude opened my eyes to the large amoumt of wax produced by a large outfit.  I am thinking the producer of the video, uses wood frames with beeswax comb and foundation, the old standard.  He described his set up as a wax melter and hive sterilizer. The video shows the ease of which he melts and collects the wax as well as frame clean up. (Wood). I'm just currious, Jim did you build yours with the same type of tank as the one shown in the video?  Or did you come up with something else?
Thanks Phillip

[BeeMaster2]

Phillip,
I am using an old propane tank for the boiler and it sits on top of a propane deep frier heater.
Jim

[Ben Framed]

Phillip,
I am using an old propane tank for the boiler and it sits on top of a propane deep frier heater.
Jim

Nice! Thumbs-UP