AFB ...Chlorine

[max2]

It is a very hot day and my brain my well not work very well...

I'm very carefull in matters hygiene with my bees. I had AFB in the past and burned to ash or irradiated all the gear as required by law here.

I soak used frames, tools, gloves...pretty well anything bee related  in ACTICHLOR - one tablet per liter. I wash my hands in the chlor solution between hives ( not recommendet! - I may add!)
ACTICHLOR is used ( here in Australia) in Hospitals to clean hard surfaces.
The container tells me that it " provides broad spectrum bacterial efficacy against both Gram and Gram negative organisms including Methicillin-Resistant Staphylococcus aureus (MRSA) and Vancomycin-Resistant Enterococcus (VRE)"

I'm aware that AFB is caused by Paenibacillus larvae , a spore-forming bacterium.

I don't expect that the tablet will kill AFB but I hope that it will kill pretty well anything else. Correct?

A friend of mine - a much bigger beekeeper - told me that he has done multiple trials were he soaked AFB affected wooden ware in a solution ( I think he said 6%) of chlorine.
He pressure washed the gear , dried it in the sun for an extendet period...and used it with no ill affect on the bees - meaning the bees in the treated hives did NOT get AFB.

I read in an article by Charlie vanden Heuvel that he recommends to clean tools and equipment in a solution of "one part bleach and 5 parts water" as a prudent management practice.

I'm no chemist and this is simply an idea. I wish some lab would do some tests ( they may have done this?) so we have some facts.

Burning good gear seems wastefull and irradiation is expensive .

Any commnets? Leads of research?

Thanks max

[Ben Framed]

Max I recall that Wombat said chlorine will not kill the spore so I went back and found the post for you. Now I do not know though I have posted some things I have found on the subject more than once. I do not know much about AFB.

If I recall correctly Wombat is a Pharmacist....

Phillip

From the topic: Question on AFB boxes after sterilisation

Chlorine won't kill spores so you could get another flare up.  Steritech irradiation is the only other way other than burning.  You would be better off saving your bees and destroying or irradiating your woodwork.

Couple of our club members are trying the European method with AFB by setting up a new hive with brood from a clean hive. Catching the queen then take the infected hive about 100m away - shake out all the bees and take away the hardware for treatment. The healthy bees in the hive return to the original site with the new hive - replace the queen and your production is only set back a few weeks instead of written off.  So far there has been no repeated AFB in the hive.

[Michael Bush]

AFB spores are very tough to kill.  I wouldn't say that chlorine doesn't kill some of them.  But I wouldn't trust it to kill all of them.  Boiling in lye has always bee more effective and popular as a treatment here.  In Australia cooking them in paraffin and rosin has been more popular for treating equipment and seems to be effective.

[TheHoneyPump]

Bleach and lye are high PH bases that work well for disinfecting soft porous organic materials, membranes. It is known and said that there are alot of things bleach does not work for, AFB being one.  For disinfection of -hard- protected- shells such as virus and spores of AFB and nosema, look for products on the other end of the PH chart - acidic low PH products.
Nearly every strong broad spectrum hospital grade disinfectant I have come across in research is acidic. I use to use a lot of bleach for cleaning and disinfecting. Nowadays I have a hard time finding a bleach jug around the shop. Suspect equipment here get fumigation, spray coating or soaking in acetic acid solutions. The really gross equipment get burned or dunked in a tub of dilute muriatic acid.
An interesting observation, perhaps a correlation, is that since using primarily OAV and Formic as mite controls, I have not seen any brood larvae diseases such as EFB AFB or sac brood, in years. The rare instances of chalk brood have also disappeared.
This info is merely one data point, and may spawn creative ideas that can work in your operations.

Hope that helps!

[Oldbeavo]

The cooking method is bees wax, parrafin, linseed oil, microcrystalline wax, resin, what ever combo you prefer but the requirement is 150+ degrees C for a minimum of 10 minutes.
If you make your own boxes from the start or flat packs, then the wax dipper used can be used for AFB cooking.
I know of two friends who had AFB, one used sterilisation and the other destroyed all the plastic foundation and cooked all the wood ware. Both have been successful.

[iddee]

Disclaimer..... I know nothing about AFB.

Now, how many treatments worked because they washed away the spores, rather than killing them?

[TheHoneyPump]

AFB spores are tough and are persistent for DECADES in dormant form.  No simple wash away works. Options are:
- destroydisposal of everything, including the bees, by fire and replace all new.
- Killing/sterilization: either by flame browning or woodware or acid soak or radiation.  It may reappear as it can be carried by the bees.
- Encasement probably limited in success: hot wax dipping, in which it is likely to reappear eventually later.

[Oldbeavo]

Hot wax dipping is IMO not really encasement, but a combination of time and temperature.
To wax dip new boxes we only leave them in for 6 min and at about 140 degrees C.
AFB control requires 10 min minimum at 150+ degrees. I don't think that wax is the essential component as vegetable oil taken to the same temp and time would probably do the same job.
I think it is wax dipping because most bee keepers have one or access to one.

[max2]

AFB is a tough one.

I read recently about some sort of immunisation possibility - i think a first for an insect.

Years ago there was talk about phages.

I wonder what the Cubans do? They seem to deal with Varroa with no access to chemicals?

[Ben Framed]

max2
I wonder what the Cubans do? They seem to deal with Varroa with no access to chemicals?

Max I haven't checked into it but I'm not sure if Cuba has Varroa? The reason that I am asking is because I have communication with a beekeeper who lives on the Isle of Man. She says there is no Varroa on her Island. (Or at least their was no varroa 'there' last time I ask her a couple yeas ago)
Since Cube is isolated could it be that it is varroa free as well?

Phillip

[Michael Bush]

All the Caribbean  islands have Varroa.  They also all have AHB.